Cinematical

First of all, I'm always amused at epitets such as "bizarre" used in such articles. Had Cruise and Spielber shown up wearing clown suits on an elephant's back, THAT would have been bizarre. There's nothing bizarre in moviemakers talking to the media together about a joint effort.

Secondly, a bit of context is needed. Cruise's religion (which happens to be my own as well) is widely accepted as a bonafide religion across the world, but has been the target of unprecedented discrimination in Germany (well, not really unprecedented if one goes back to the 1930s). And one of the key barking dogs of that antireligious propaganda has been Der Spiegel (same rag that published oodles of antisemitic propaganda 70 years ago)

So there's nothing surprising in the beligerant and openly confrontational tone of the reporter, even if it is patently unprofessional.

I applaud both Spielberg and Cruise in their crusades to achieve something meaningful and humanitarian with their fame, beyond the glitter of the red carpet. Spielberg's Shoa Foundation is a laudable organization, and Tom Cruise has personally funded two Detox projects to help the firefighters of 9-11. (http://www.nydetox.org). Tom Cruise is also a spokesperson for Applied Scholastics (www.appliedscholastics.org), and has been active in education and literacy projects for some time. Considering the very busy schedule of a person in his line of work, I find that quite commendable.

I don't know if War of the Worlds will live up to the hype. But I admire both these men for using their fame to do something constructive and leave behind legacies of helping others.

Sincerely,
Greg Churilov
www.liveandgrow.org

Reply

Churilov said it so well. Der Spiegal is doing its usual hack job to creat a controversy in hopes of fabricating interest. The intrviewer just brings up things so he can take wacks at the interviewees. It's merely being quite rude.

Reply

1/ Scientology is far from recognized as a "bonafide" religion the world over. In my own country the Netherlands they are still paying taxes and in England and Wales Church of Scientology's attempt to become a registered charity in the UK failed because the Commission has concluded that Scientology does not operate for the "public benefit".

See: http://members.lycos.nl/gormez/charity_commission/

2/ Narconon has no independant statistics proven it is the most successful drug rehab rganization in the world. Far from it! They make figures up on the go. The only independant statistics found that 6.6% of Narconon entrants remain drug-free permanently.

The Swedish evaluation found also that:

* Most Narconon entrants do not complete the programme.
* Most of those who do complete the programme return to drug abuse subsequently.

See
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Narconon/studies.htm#swedish

Sincerely,
Mike Gormez
www.taxexemptchildabuse.net

Reply

While Spielberg is describing his social responsibilities after 9/11 in choosing which films he makes, Der Smeagol tries to car-bomb the interview because they dislike someone's religion.

For shame, psuedo-journalists.

Reply

"Cruise: You don't understand what I am saying. It's a statistically proven fact that there is only one successful drug rehabilitation program in the world. Period."

Does anyone know where we can find those statistics? I assume they are from a credible, independent source?

Reply

Don't know the statistics. I am pretty sure that a person like Tom Cruise would know his numbers pretty well when talking to the press though.

Here's something from an independent source though:


“Addicts characteristically subordinate values such as work, family relationships, and community responsibilities to the ingestion and unwise use of alcohol and/or drugs.Social neglect and criminal behavior are frequent companions of drug abuse and alcoholism. Efforts to develop a functional normative system, as it is done in the Narconon® program, should result in favorable outcomes. The Narconon program has demonstrated that this redefinition of the normative system of addicts is possible to implement with empathy, compassion, and respect for the addict.”

Alfonzo Paredes, Sr., MD
Professor of Psychiatry,UCLA School of Medicine
Board certified in Psychiatry and Neurology

Reply

Anyway, I don't believe it's relevant or on-topic to begin a debate on whether you're a fan of Narconon or you aren't.
Narconon exists. It delivers a drug-rehabilitation program. It's ONE option for people wanting to quit drugs.

Other options that people subject themselves to: "The Priory", England's most famous rehab, costs over $40,000 to go through. Some people like Rock-Star Pete Doherty chose to go to a thailandese monastery instead, where bamboo floggings are part of the program.

To each his own.

The point of the article, and the topic of this thread, is actually the Spiegel interview with moviemakers Spielberg and Cruise, the challenging tone of the interview, and the responses of the two interviewees.

Everything else is off-topic.

Reply

Don't know the statistics. I am pretty sure that a person like Tom Cruise would know his numbers pretty well when talking to the press though.

Here's something from an independent source though:


“Addicts characteristically subordinate values such as work, family relationships, and community responsibilities to the ingestion and unwise use of alcohol and/or drugs.Social neglect and criminal behavior are frequent companions of drug abuse and alcoholism. Efforts to develop a functional normative system, as it is done in the Narconon® program, should result in favorable outcomes. The Narconon program has demonstrated that this redefinition of the normative system of addicts is possible to implement with empathy, compassion, and respect for the addict.”

Alfonzo Paredes, Sr., MD
Professor of Psychiatry,UCLA School of Medicine
Board certified in Psychiatry and Neurology

Reply

Alfonso/Alfonzo Paredes is not independent. He is part of the Narconon Advisory Board.
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Stop-Narconon/AdvisoryBoard/


Sincerly,
Mike Gormez
www.Stop-WISE.biz

Reply

I don't know what it is, but I have always experienced that Scientologist are always on the defensive. Although I don't agree with Scientology and its rants, I do see much merit in how Cruise and Speilberg might feel assailed by this interviewer.

Reply

Yup, sorry. Too hasty, did not check out the professor's affiliations. Should've.

In regards to being on the defensive: There are a small group of people that are active scientolophobes. They invest a considerable amount of effort and time at libeling and smearing my religion in the media and elsewhere. Much of the discrimination in Germany is the result of the efforts of people like this.

And Mike Gormez is exactly an example of a bigot with an axe to grind. So yes, I am a bit defensive. Because he's a bit "attackive" (I know, I know, not a word. Sue me, Mike.)

The main reason why Cruise had an information tent on the set, as he himself says, was to show the good programs Scientology has, and how it can help people. Part of it is extending a helping hand to the community, part of it is saying "learn about us, we're not weirdos or punchbags for bigots, we're people of good will just like you."

Having recently spent two weeks doing relief work in Indonesia with other volunteers of my Church, it incenses me that we are constantly hit with lame-ass accusations and innuendo.

We're here. Get used to it. Those who want to find out about Scientology, can. Those who don't want to, don't have to. Those who constantly attack us just for believing differently than them will have to answer to a higher power someday for their own prejudiced black hearts.

Reply

JPG, I stand by my post. I believe that if someone focuses his energy at attacking people of good will, at badgering those who devote their energy at rehabilitating drugaddicts or work on literacy programs, if someone pours all their zest into attacking the beliefs of others, then that person has a black heart and little love in it.

In Indonesia, I saw soldiers who built houses for the refugees, and I also saw soldiers who charged a relief truck a $50 bribe to allow them access. There's good in the world, and there is evil. And to say otherwise is just naive.

Keep in mind I'm not talking about someone who posts a comment challenging some aspect of my views. That's just debate, and I'm open to it.

But I know for a fact that kids of Scientologist families have been beat up because of our religion. I know that Germany tried to ban Mission Impossible because Tom Cruise is a Scientologist, and that the German govt did not allow Chick Corea to perform in Germany because he's a Scientologist. Germany even had a problem with Windows 2000 because some of the americans who worked on the software were Scientologists.

One of the reasons why Cruise makes such an effort to make the humanitarian efforts of Scientology known is to break through the wall of prejudice and lies. And I'm not a big fan of those who keep promoting the prejudice and the lies.

I don't believe everyone should become a Scientologist. Do your own thing. Just get used to seeing us around, because we're not going anywhere. And we're tired of being the media's punching bag - We do way too much good work to see our religion constantly portrayed in some negative way. Especially when we have Rudy Giulianni thanking us for our work after 9-11, when we have Jeb Bush commending us for our disaster relief work in Florida, when we have thousands of former heroin addicts say that one of our programs saved their life. I've spoken to enough of these people personally to know the programs work.

Reply

1/ Me a bigot? No, that is not me. I criticize other harmful companies as well. Likewise I could say Greg is a bigot because he allegedly saw soldiers who had to be bribed.

2/ about attacking people of goodwill. Folks, here is how scientologists depict people they don't like.
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/

3/ I know for a fact how two little scientologist girls were sexually assaulted by an adult scientologist and the mother was adviced by Scientology NOT to file a complaint.

How do I know that? Because the brave mother said fudge-it and went ahead anyway and the court papers became public. The scientologist perpetrator is now serving 30 years in jail.
http://members.chello.nl/mgormez/childabuse/childmolester.html

But scientologists will probably call me again a bigot because I don't like to see children harmed by Scientology or anyone else. So be it and I'll wear the label with pride, knowing its origin.

Sincerly,
Mike Gormez
http://www.whyaretheydead.net/Eric_Rubio_36/

Reply

Mike, stop using this as your own personal scientolophobe smear board. You're WAY off-topic. Don't know about the case you mention, but if Astra Woodcraft is your source, it is WAY doubtful there's any truth in it.

Go bother someone else and leave this board to those who want to discuss the topic.

Reply

Greg:

I'm glad that you're ok with friendly debate; me too. I'd like to hear more about this:

"I know that Germany tried to ban Mission Impossible because Tom Cruise is a Scientologist, and that the German govt did not allow Chick Corea to perform in Germany because he's a Scientologist. Germany even had a problem with Windows 2000 because some of the americans who worked on the software were Scientologists."

Could you please cite sources?

Also, I really think it would help the cause of Scientology and Narconon if someone could cite the stats that Cruise referred to ("It's a statistically proven fact that there is only one successful drug rehabilitation program in the world. Period.") Critics might point to the fact that Narconon was kicked out of California schools because of lack of scientific evidence (http://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/he/at/narcononevaluation.asp).

So I think it would help to see the stats that Cruise mentioned.

Thanks!

Reply

Ok, I have some of these handy not all:

Discrimination of Chick Corea:
http://www.humanrights-germany.org/issues/eng/relapa96/artistic.htm

Discrimination of "Mission Impossible" in Germany:
http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/9608/11/scientology/

Discrimination: Windows 2000 in Germany:
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,33154,00.html
http://www.humanrights-germany.org/us-targeted.htm

I don't have the other data handy, and my wife is nagging me to stop typing and take her to the movies.

'Later.

Reply

More about Germany:

Scientology recently won a Court battle in Germany, ending government surveillance on Scientologists because "Judges said seven years of surveillance had not produced "findings that would justify the continuation of this surveillance"."

I don't know if you fully get what this means. It means that for the last 7 years German citizens were spied on, their privacy invaded, their movements followed, their mail opened, simply because of their religion.

Scientologist are also not allowed to belong to the ruling political party in Germany, they've been fired from job and their kids have been expelled from kindergarten solely because of their religion. Memories of 1930?

Sources:

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1567596,00.html

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=52&story_id=19544&name=Court+orders+halt+to+surveillance+of+Scientologists

Reply

In regards to Narconon:

Sorry, I'm not connected to Narconon and all I can tell you is what I've heard first-hand from program graduates. Don't know the stats. Maybe they're on their website http://www.narconon.org

One note though:
Narconon was NOT kicked out of California Schools. A series of educational seminars against drugs which is related to Narconon was kicked out of California schools. There's a difference. (Narconon was never IN California schools.)

For any reader naive enough to think there's no political or financial agenda being played out here: Narconon is a hugely successful drug-rehab program that gets people off drugs WITHOUT using methadone. Methadone is a highly addictive drug itself, and HUGE business for several Methadone-based drug-rehab organizations. MONEY is at stake. LOTS of it. So, strings are pulled, favors are called, and witch-hunts are started. Nothing new under the sun - ask any Chiropractor.

As a note, Narconon was not started by Mr. Hubbard, nor by Scientologists. It was started by a rehabilitated addict called William Benitez, back in the 70s. It uses Hubbard principles because they're effective.

Check out the success stories.

Here's one:

====================================
"I’ve had the finest drug treatment money could buy, it has taught me many things. It has taught me about probation and jails, it has shown me the inside of prison twice, and how it feels to be treated like I was less than human. It has taken me to the funerals of seven of my best friends, where I had the opportunity to witness the pain of a mother who lost a son too soon, a father who will never again hear the sound of his child’s voice, and a mother with two sons and no father to help raise them. I have given my parents the intense feeling of anguish at finding their son OD’d in their own home - the list goes on. A major part of my life today is a legacy of pain and remorse, my own and that of those whose lives I have touched.

I first got clean in 1988 and in my first treatment center I was told that one in ten addicts who make it to treatment live. I vowed then to be that one and for the last eleven years I fought a losing battle. It is a miracle that I stand before you today. For those of you who don’t know, and are using, let me tell you it is a life and death struggle that you are in. For those of you who have had enough pain. I suggest that you grab ahold of this program with both hands and don’t let go until you wring every bit of knowledge and information out of it that you can. It’s been said that nothing worthwhile is easy. I have done the hard part already. I have gained certainty that I was going to die or spend my life in prison by trying to “use successfully”.

I have more stability now than I ever dreamed possible. I am clean. I never imagined actually knowing I wouldn’t use drugs again.

I want to talk about the staff…It is hard for me to put into words my gratitude to the staff, how do you thank someone who has saved your life, and not just mine, but has dedicated their lives to helping others to live happy, productive lives? Words are not enough. I will forever spread the word about Narconon Arrowhead and the people who absolutely perform miracles every day.

I realize that the world will work with me if I work with it. I’m happy again. Thank you Narconon Arrowhead!!! "
====================================
(from http://www.stopaddiction.com/narconon_success.html)

Reply

re: More about Germany.

The survalance was lifted in one state, which only has 20 scientologists. Like the US has a Homeland Security, so to does Germny has a Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution. The Office monitor groups it deems as anti-democratic. Like neo-Nazi's and Scientology.
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1567596,00.html

Here's why Scientology fits that bill
http://home.snafu.de/tilman/krasel/germany/quotes.html

The Federal monitoring of Scientology continues to this day.

Ps. Greg, if you paid attention you wouldn't ask me what my source is for the scientologist child molestation conviction. Follow the URL I gave.



Sincerly,
Mike Gormez
http://www.whyaretheydead.net/lisa_mcpherson/autopsy/

Reply