Cinematical

Could be worse. At least it's not turning anyone into creepy fundementalist christians......

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I hope that people do wake up and worship nature. And yes I am Wiccan.

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Wow, Even discussing this makes me feel retarded

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I am Christian-Wiccan and I feel that perhaps the good preacher - Steve Wohlberg needs to step out of the small framed box that his conditioning has forced him into and relax a bit. I'm not sure rather JK Rowling's Wiccan or not but if she was it would I feel be a real honor should I ever get to meet her in person.

JK Rowling's without perhaps knowing it has changed the way people look upon the craft...thank you.

I know that there's a great deal of difference between what we see on the big screen and the real thing but it has at lease got people thinking and asking questions.

Mainstream religion has failed to provide our youth with certain questions and now they are seeking the answers else where.

I am the founder of The Enchanted School of Magick and if you don't have the answers then perhaps we do.

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Grandfather Oak raises an excellent point, and while I commend his perceptiveness, I think we disagree on how that is applied. I totally agree that today's mainstream religion fails to address the questions of today's young people, but I believe that that religion is, at least in America, secular humanism.

Our society is filled with vestigial reminders of Christianity, but the answers they represented have pretty much been removed from our culture and institutions.

And since most people seem to be constantly looking for answers, it's no surprise that some people are attaching more importance to Harry Potter than JKR intended. I think this issue represents many problems, but the books themselves aren't the main issue.

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A lot of people have seen the Star Wars movies and read the books, but I don't see them turning into Jedi knights or Sith lords.

Oddly enough, children have the ability to tell the difference between reality and fiction. Even more strangely, some of them appear to be losing this ability when the become adults.

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Certainly wonder, joy, inspiration, magic and nobility are threats to Christianity. Anything that stimulates thought and imagination must by nature be a threat to a religion that thrives in repression, bigotry and ignorance

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I love it-- look at the coverage of the Narnia books and movie and replace Steve Wohlberg with a Cinematical writer sounding the alarm that they would be promoted in the Just Read program.

Nobody even knows or cares who Steve Wohlberg is, other than that he is a nice opportunity to take some blanket potshots at Christianity, apparently the only religion not accepted in our multicultural wonderland. Very respectful.

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Hey I think you can believe what you want, but dont bash anyone else. If a person believes in witches and spells and magic or Jesus and the holy spirit and god more power to them.

And by the way as a true preacher and christian person why would you have a problem looking at or reading something you dont believe in. They should not even look at jurrasic park or anything with dinasaurs, cause they didn't exist according to their religion.

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The misunderstanding of Christianity is strong in this thread! David L seems to have confused Islam with the Christian church, which is a common enough mistake these days, but Camron has stumbled onto a gem of pure originality. Christianity claims that dinosaurs never existed? Wow. That's a new one, kind of. Prior to the 1800s, far better informed mockers of Christianity used the Bible's mention of as then undiscovered dinosaurs to criticize its veracity.

Morgan has pointed out a very common historical trend, currently exacerbated by the ease of the internet dog-pile. And it's no wonder. Most dog-pilers actually think Christians hold to weird beliefs that are routinely trashed by the Christian-haters. Ironically, some of the loudest critics are guilty of the very things they're claiming to attack: believing strange things without proof just support their own arguments, and intolerance of other positions.

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I think that you guys are looking WAAAAYYYYY too hard into this Harry Potter thing and it turning us into Wiccans. I mean it just a fricking story!!!!! i mean no one freaked out at The Wizard of Oz now did the? and what about the Disney movies!!! they dont seem to have turned everyone into Wiccans after watching Sleeping Beauty?! and every little girl is still really into that movie!! people are just trying to stir up trouble where it doesnt belong. at least now kids are reading!!!!!

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Is this guy as stupid as he sounds?! What is wrong with the way I as a wiccan live my life? Not to diss on his religion or anything (because wiccans believe in free will) but he should go warship his carpenter that died over 2000 years ago. He should also go to school and learn about what horible things the christions did to "gods children". Any one that looks down on wicca is just plain ignorant.

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I must disagree with how biased your accusation is. I myself am a Christian, and, though I myself do not read the series, I have many Christian friends who do. They are all firmly ground in their faith and the Harry Potter series is definitely not swaying them from that. They realize fully that it is purely fictional. I know this because I talk to them pretty much on a regular basis. Furthermore, have you tried reading the series yourself? Have you done any research? Are you only saying this because this is what Pastor Steve Wohlberg says? I hope you don't take this as me yelling at you or getting in your face, because, honestly, that's not how I want you to take it. I am merely saying that God gave us Christians the Bible and the Holy Spirit to guide us in our personal walk with Christ. He doesn't want us to make decisions based solely on what Reverend X says. He wants us to spend time with Him and find out what He wants us to do with our lives. He wants us to trust Him and go to Him for answers. Although at times we do need other Christians' help, which is what the body of Christ is for, our primary source for answers to our questions, especially ones this contradictory, should be God Himself. I also believe that researching these books is good to do, too. Find out what they're really about, then take what you find out to God's Word and see how it matches up. I know that sometimes we forget, and I don't always remember that, either, but we should try not to judge people. The Bible says that judging is God's job. I try to keep an open mind and check things with God's Word and my knowledge of myself and my weaknesses. Next, just because some children are turning Wiccan doesn't mean that that was the author's intention. Why do I say this? Because J.K. Rowling is herself a member of the Church of Scotland. Somehow I doubt that she wants to turn kids into people who "wake up and worship nature" every day. Before I close, I would also like to inform you that actually not every high school sophmore "lies a lot...breaks the law, has temper tantrums" all the time. And only a few study the occult and practice spells. In fact, I haven't met any that do. And I go to school with them every day.
"Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity."-1 Timothy 4:12
I hope that gives you some faith in the next generation. :) In love,
lotrfreak

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I had the writer, Steve Wohlberg on my internet radio show this last summer ("Moonrise with Shadow Mihaiu") and discussed his book and his assertions. Mr. Wohlberg admitted to me, on air (I have ithe recording!) that (a) in his opinion Wicca is not a bad thing in any event, and that (b) he wrote this book because the publisher offered him money, they having approached him because they thought they could sell a book on the topic given the (then) upcoming Harry Potter movie. Incidentally, Mr. Wohlberg was very polite and forthcoming with those admissions (among others).

This illustrates two points, assuming for the moment that you can apply Mr. Wohlberg's behavior to Christian Fundamentalism in general: Christian fundamentalists will gladly propagate bigotry in excahnge for cash; if there is money to be gained, Christian Fundamentalists do not worry too much that what they say does not accord with what they believe.

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Magical themes abound in children's stories. This book series is just that a story and has little to do with real WICCA or Witchcraft. The people who try to cite this as a "gateway" or something into magick do not even know what magick is, nor do they understand the Pagan roots to their and most "modern" religions.

I feel obligated to to respond to the dark posturing of this book series by someone who claims to be a "Christian". So, let's look at "Real life" Christian History.

In present day - Christianity in it's many forms believe the Creator of all that is, requires and demands a "blood" sacrifice. Their religion is rooted in an ancient religion that created a sacred slaughter house of blood letting and burning of animal flesh as an offering to appease an Angry, Jealous and Vengeful God. (Don't get mad at me, read your Bibles people and history.)

That sacrifice was replaced with a "Human Sacrifice" that is "remembered" through the ritualistic "drinking of Jesus's Blood" and "eating of Jesus's flesh", for the orginal Roman Contexts this was "actual", more modern Christianity, it's symbolic.

But I must ask - real or symbolic, if you pause and give thought and not be a sheep (Sheep cannot ever become Shepards, fyi - think about it.) Would the creator of all that is, "God is love", need anything from human beings, and would a loving "Deity" demand and require blood?

Ritualistic canabalism is a bit - "dark" and "demented" IF, you stop and think about it and what it represents.

Now - let's look at Christian History - 1700 or so years of "convert or die", the devising of methods of death and torture, and obsession with sex, and Evil, and "The Devil" and "Demons" as a pretext to kill, torture, and take lands with the coordination of Goverment(s). A bloody history of expansion of beliefs and conquering of people (Unbelievers are "less than" and they "need" the Gospel, even if we have to kill and torture them to believe it.

Christianity as a "nice" religion has only been so during the last 100 years or less where it has become unpopular to "censor" information, as well as illegal to do what they have been doing for 1700 years.

Christianty became the "Evil" they so dreaded and killed manny innocents in ways and methods of death and torture that make Christ's death seem like a mercy killing.

Not a pretty history, not a pretty practice and I have yet to find anything by anyone that practices any kind of "Magical" craft, not even the "Satanists" which are so feared have a history as vile, morbid and horrific as the "Good News", by the "Prince of Peace."

The truth is, Christ's life and stories are amazing and Divine, up until they made religions out of him and began worshiping him. Jesus refused worship, and he taught our "relationship" - get this BEFORE he died. He taught also where the "Spirit of God" was - within (go read your bibles again, doesn't matter which version or translation, doesn't matter, it's not all true anyway, and fyi, Jesus nor his Apostles were "Greek", so it's all heresay anyway.)

He taught a "Son/Daughter" relationship, not a "Sheep/Shepard" relationship that was a "Command and Control" doctrine that did not come from Deity.

You can sort it all out with the "5 Part Divinity and Truth" filter to identify origion of any "Divine" work, teaching or doctrine. Clarification of source is important.

I tell people "I do not reject Jesus, but I find Christianity and it's history absolutly vile and appauling and it's practices and history is an abomination to everything Jesus represented by his life of healing, love, refusing to "judge" others and teaching about the Divinity within every person - he did all that "before he died" and someone some really evil people took that greatness and turned it into a religion which spawned many religions that cause abuse and harm to people all around the world. It's history, 1700 or so years of it speaks for itself and is undeniable. Also, please don't forget that Hitler was a Christian, working on what he believed was "God's" will.

List folks, if Deity wants to "kill" or "war" let Deity do it's own dirty work. If your "God" tells you to harm others, or invade others or do anything "un-Christ like" try to remember what "Christ was like" and be that. "Wrong God" if you get my meaning...Think about it.

The sheep are waking up and they are not happy.

- David Nelson
Founder/Auther of the 5 Part Divinity and Truth Filter

www . thechurchofwhatworks . com
www . healmyenemy . com

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I had the writer, Steve Wohlberg on my internet radio show this last summer ("Moonrise with Shadow Mihaiu") and discussed his book and his assertions. Mr. Wohlberg admitted to me, on air (I have ithe recording!) that (a) in his opinion Wicca is not a bad thing in any event, and that (b) he wrote this book because the publisher offered him money, they having approached him because they thought they could sell a book on the topic given the (then) upcoming Harry Potter movie. Incidentally, Mr. Wohlberg was very polite and forthcoming with those admissions (among others).

This illustrates two points, assuming for the moment that you can apply Mr. Wohlberg's behavior to Christian Fundamentalism in general: Christian fundamentalists will gladly propagate bigotry in excahnge for cash; if there is money to be gained, Christian Fundamentalists do not worry too much that what they say does not accord with what they believe.

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I'd like to submit David Nelson's post as another example of poorly researched history being regurgitated into anti-Christianity arguments. Specifically, mixing the deeds of anti-biblical cults with early church misconceptions and trying pin the whole mess on "Modern Christianity."

A few points; transubstantiation is not an inherently Roman or early church concept, and not supported by scripture. I think you are confused by the fact that it is the "Roman Catholic" church which teaches that. Also, your understanding of required sacrifice seems more in line with the ancient Mayan than the ancient Hebrew.

The whole convert-or-die period with the torturing for confessions that you believe lasted for hundreds of years was in fact a much shorter, brutal reign of terror instigated and perpetuated by Torquemada (I always expect a mention of the Spanish Inquisition). This was a cultic off-shoot of the Catholic church which, like the Knights Templar, was condemned by every Christian, Orthodox, and Judaic church and group and also the Pope.

The Catholic Church did partake in some tortuous executions on its own directly following that time, but these were mostly punishments for members of the new Protestant church, which sprang up in and around the Germanic counties to "reform" the catholic church and return it to its original and proper Biblical responsibilities.

Speaking of Germany, the assertion that Adolf Hitler was a Christian is an oft-quoted piece of misinformation which has been debunked by scholars and historians and Hitler's own writings, where his hatred of Christianity is well documented. At the beginning of the Third Reich, Hitler replaced all church crosses with swastikas and all bibles with copies of Mein Kampf, and later closed church building altogether and burned many pastors with the Jews.

I'm not trying to defend any of the really atrocious actions of evil men in history. By trying to blame with on Christianity without due cause is irresponsible.

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The Harry Potter stories do demonstrate many noble truths about the power of love and the struggle to overcome oppression.

They also have rich characters, with complex motives, and moral failings as well as virtues. Why is this bad? Do not Christians preach that "All have sinned and fallen short?"

The books teach how misunderstandings can divide friends and the long term effects of abusive behavior. Look at how Harry comes to recognise that his father's petty cruelty shaped Prof. Snape's character! Harry learns that he must be loyal to truth, even when it means he cannot idolize his father. This is a fine example of maturation.

So, Rowling's series is a good one for discussing applied ethics with middle school and high school students. But it doesn't teach religion.

Rowling's Halloween is purely secular, and she appears to know nothing of the other 7 Wiccan holidays. In fact, she treats Christmas much the same way with a festive holiday feast, but no religion. There are portraits of historical wizards everywhere at Hogwarts, but no statues of Gods or Goddesses. In fact, I have found no place where the students at Hogwarts worship anything. In Rowling's world, magic is simply the technology of the wizarding world; it has nothing to do with Wicca at all!

And, of course, real Wicca has nothing to do with the thaumaturgy of Rowling's world. Real Wicca is a RELIGION concerned with cultivating reverence for Nature as the Embodiment of the Divine. Real Wicca doesn't give you powers to suspend the Laws of Nature. Real Wicca teaches us how to have a more harmonious mind to obey the Laws of Nature and make use of them to heal.

I suspect that the REAL reason that Narnia will receive support from Christians is that the witch there is depicted as evil.

As for the religion of Harry Potter's world; I'd say it isn't Wicca, but Ethical Humanism.

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This is Steve Wohlberg. First, I am saddened by Shadow Mihaiu's comments because we had a very cordial interview together on his show and his comments are grossly unfair. He says he has the recording. I am sure that if one actually listens to what I said it does not say we he describes. Not by a long shot. Nowhere did I state I wrote my book so that they would give me money, and my association with my publisher in no wise implies that all fundamentalist Christians will say anything in order to make a buck. Shame on you Shadow! Your words are the perfect example of one who talks respectful but stabs behind the back. You wrote: "Christian fundamentalists will gladly propagate bigotry in exchange for cash." You supposedly learned this from the interview with me. The very interview, may I remind you, that you said you appreciated. Whether you realize it or not, your words reveal the exact spirit of unfairness you appear to be fighting against, and deep within your heart, you must know it.

Those who will take the time to actually READ what my book really says will see a different view. But, using Shadow's own words, it is much easier to "propagate bigotry" than to present truth faily. Professed Christians are not the only ones who need adjusting. Many times pagans do also. And one such pagan is a man named Shadow Mihaiu.

Respectfully,

Steve Wohlberg

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This is Steve Wohlberg. Shadow Mihaiu's comments are grossly unfair. Shame on you Shadow! We had a cordial radio interview, which you said you appreciated, and nowhere did I give the impression that I wrote my book just to make a buck. You say you have the recording. I suggest you listen to it again, my friend. And in no way can what I said be honestly made to mean that this is true of all "fundamentalist Christians." Honestly, that is. But is appears that honesty is not one of Shadow's interests. His words are the perfect example of one who talks nice, but then stabs in the back. Yes, many Christians need adjusting, and fairness. And so do many pagans. One such pagan is a man named Shadow Mihaiu.

Respectfully,

Steve Wohlberg

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