Oscar Predictions -- What Would Ernest Borgnine Do?

Obscene how much positive press The Departed received. Take Scorsese's name off the film and nobody would have watched it; with good reason. It's a bad remake of a so-so Chinese film - Infernal Affairs. They took a silly concept and amped it up to 11. Everything was over-the-top, mindnumbingly insulting about the film from the ridiculous look of the film to the look-at-me-dialogue to the hammy actors to the preposterous script.

At least the Chinese film had some drama and character development. The american idiot version did away with characters and story.

F Martin Scorsese. Let him make a good film and maybe then he'll get a beloved studio-bought golden boy.

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Pretty good article and explanation for how AMPAS votes the way it does. I agree with most of what Ernest would say, except for best picture. On a side note, I believe Forrest Gump is a way better choice for Best Picture 1994 that Pulp Fiction (I don't handle anything Tarantino films very well).

In regards to the previous poster, I VEHEMENTLY disagree, as do many other viewers of the Departed and a majority of US film critics. I felt the characters were done well and as for the over-the-top dialogue, that's Scorsese's style. Furthermore, his statement towards Scorsese is beneath contempt.

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Golly bootlicking critics like the Departed. Hmm, wonder how many even bothered to see Infernal Affairs? Judging by their warm reception to a poorly written remake, I'd guess few of them.

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The original Infernal Affairs was abysmal. Character development? Yeah right. They couldn't even speak English! Can we please stop this constant fawning over Asian films and their original versions? If the original versions were so great how come only THREE people saw them? Huh?

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I haven't watched Infernal Affairs, but I have to agree that The Departed was an above-average but somewhat forgettable crime thriller, nothing more. It was good, but far from the year's best, and definitely one of Scorsese's least interesting films.

And, with the disclaimer that I haven't watched Infernal Affairs, I want to point out to marty that in general people fawn over current Asian films because at the moment there are no film-makers anywhere in the world to compete with the best Asia has to offer - people like Chan-wook Park, Wong Kar-Wai, Kim Jee-woon and Hou Hsiao-Hsien are our generation's great filmmakers. Even at his best Scorsese's never made an Oldboy or an In the Mood for Love...

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Hah. We need a great acronym for this...How Would Ernest Vote? HWEV!

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-------------SPOILERS ------------

Marty - fewer americans have seen infernal affairs but in asia the film is well known and highly regarded.

A few elements the HK film handled better:

Communication. The use of morse code during the drug dealing sequence is tense and slick. Flipside, the Departed had Leo passing messages via text messaging. How...um...not creative or interesting. In fact all tension was removed from that scene and we were left with a flat chip deal, lacking the creativity or drama of IA's deal.

Envelope to the Therapist actually meant something in IA. In the Departed they opted for the cliche that the therapist and Damon's character are involved while the envelope went nowhere.

The therapist/girlfriend - in IA she's two characters and Damon's character in IA is married with kids. His wife has a stake in why she wouldn't rat on him. In The Departed the therapist has zero reason not to hand over the incriminating CD - she was only seeing him and cheating on him, thus Damon's character should have been arrested in The Departed.

Time Span - this killed The Departed. In the Departed the characters go to police academy training, get out and one becomes a lead investigator in MONTHS, while the other goes to prison for a few months and then INSTANTLY becomes best buddies with a lifelong crimelord. That RUINED the film. There's no way a lifelong crimelord is going to take a former cop under his wing and involve him in murder, drug dealer and mayhem instantly. IA actually made this believable as both men spent 7 years growing in their professions. In IA you have a guy stuck undercover for 7 years and he's sick of living a lie - everybody thinks he's just a scumbag and that allows him to eventually get into the crimelord's gang. And unlike The Departed, the crimelord never fully embraces the undercover cop but rather he's just part of the gang - on the fringe.

Likewise the bad cop in IA had seven years to become someone in the world, grow professionally and advance to the point where he could be in charge of the same division that sought to bring down his true master. He had a cushy life, wife, etc. Stakes were raised - 7 years undercover, everyone thinks you're scum, 7 years as a decorated cop with a good life and everybody loves you.

In IA, when the undercover cop's ONLY contact is killed you realize he's totally screwed. The only person who knows the truth is gone. He's now just a lifelong criminal. Flipside, in The Departed Wahlberg KNEW the truth, thus Dicaprio's character didn't have to even bother going to Damon to get his life back. He had a good, solid, hardass cop on his side. IA - the cop's on an island after 7 YEARS of being a criminal. In The Departed Dicaprio spent maybe 7-8 months as a criminal and other people knew the truth. Again, the stakes are different.

Ending - typical american ending: the bad guy gets it. Whatever. Americans need to grow the hell up. The bad guys don't lose...that's why they're richer, happier and meaner. In IA the character gets away with his deception because nobody can prove or say otherwise. His wife isn't gonna squeal on him - especially not in that culture.

Wahlberg's character = ridiculous. He was added for god knows what reason. He's a plothole in The Departed. He knows the truth - thus the rooftop exchange/climax isn't needed. He knows the truth, thus Dicaprio is not alone. He kills Damon - thus robbing the film of the chilling IA ending. Overall, the character is just a problem for the emotional payoff of the film.

Sorry, but to me The Departed was a poorly written, poorly executed remake. The groundwork was there for them to add layers to the film and make it better than IA. Instead of improving on IA's weaknesses, they dumbed down the story, shortened the story arc, removed emotional highs/lows, made Damon into a one dimensional villain and essentially took just a portion of a decent film's general concept. Shoddy filmmaking.

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Sorry for the long post!

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I agree with the sentiment AND the picks - except "The Queen." You forget that the Borgnines are voting for Mirren because she's great and due, not because they've seen the small, small movie she was in. If it were a bigger picture, it'd be a shoo-in. Since it isn't, we're stuck with a Babel-Departed-Sunshine cluster****.

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Why is this pig Ernest Borgnine being featured in anything after his disgusting announcement last year that he would not even watch overwhelming front-runner Brokeback Mountain because "John Wayne would roll over in his grave"?? Blatant bigotry should not be tolerated, much less rewarded with this type of publicity. And sorry, he's nobody's icon but his own.

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Sorry, but it is 10 minutes later and this is still gnawing at me, I can't stand the thought of this person receiving positive publicity for his neanderthal thinking. How low is everybody willing to go for publicity and dollars before a line is crossed? And let's be honest: if McHale's Navy Ernie had said he wouldn't watch Dreamgirls because George Wallace or some other KKK member would roll over in his grave, would this article be posted? What if he said he wouldn't watch Schindler's List because Hitler would roll over in his? Or how far back do you want to go, say, he wouldn't watch The Queen or some other film celebrating strong women because women are inferior and shouldn't vote? There is no difference here in what Borgnine said about gays. And if even giving one of the most acclaimed films ever made a chance is just too offensive for him to stomach, then fine, keep the opinion to yourself, and have a shred of integrity, DON'T VOTE unless you've seen all the films. I am outraged there is so little outrage. This is a person who should be ignored, not celebrated.

P.S. Yes, I am aware George Wallace repented his views before he died. I am certain that Borgnine will not, and why should he, his bigotry has landed him a late-life spotlight. And yes, I am also aware that some of you think I am humorless (there is nothing funny about this), but whenever I think of that 3rd rate has-been (who also didn't deserve his award - especially over non-nominees James Dean in Rebel Without a Cause and Robert Mitchum in Night of the Hunter), I will think of his immortalization in The Golden Girls. Somebody is emitting foul, odious grunts and burps, so Bea Arthur snipes, "Please, I've heard less disgusting sounds from Ernest Borgnine". Not by much.

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The Borg is not the quintessential Oscar voter because he is atypical in at least one major way: a Republican, he voted for the Evil Moron for president.

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The Departed deserves oscars for both best director and best film. I've seen it twice and it blew me away. The acting by everybody was absolutely top notch. I think Leo shouldve got nominated for this rather than blood diamond, and that Jack Nicholson didn't get any nomination is criminal. Scorsese is just the best director in hollywood. I have never seen a bad Scorsese movie. The man is a genius. THE biggest injustice in the history of the oscars was in 1990 when some film about wolves (i cant remember much' it was that bad that i fell asleep)won over (in my opinion)the best movie ever made.....yes, Goodfellas. Second on my all time favourite list is now The Departed (shoving The Big Lebowski into 3rd place.)

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The Departed is the most over rated BP nom this year. (With Babel a close second). Having never seen Infernal, I give the following musings. 1) The damn thing is about 20 minutes too long. 2) The therapist character had no meaning in the film and was extraneous. She could have been cut out completely and not effected the plot. 3) Complete waste of Jack's talents. 4) The final shot with the literal rat running across the balcony had me howling with laughter in the theatre. 5) Mark Wahlberg can act? Could have fooled me.

I'm not a fan of Scorsese's style of films. I liked The Aviator (but again WAAAY too long)and Last Temptation but was bored by Gangs of New York and Cape Fear. Goodfellas was too violent as was Casino and I've never seen Raging Bull, Taxi Driver or Mean Streets just because I never got around to them.

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Communication. Scorsese use of cell phones in The Departed is the best use of cell phones in film I've ever seen. They were Hitchcockian tense. What film were you watching?

The therapist/girlfriend - She has pretty big reason not to turn Damon in, for one, even though he betrayed her, she was in love with him for a long time.

Time Span - The Departed doesn't exactly specify how much time goes by, and Dicaprio gets in with the big boss because of his father.

Dicaprio has no choice to go to the police because Wahlberg leaves and is nowhere to be found.

Ending - Damon's doesn't get away with it, but his character is hardly the "bad guy". Dicaprio is hardly the "good guy". They are both shades of gray. Like most Scorsese movies nobody gets away with it. Everyone pays for thier sins. It's better that way.

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