Cinematical Roundtable: Four Of Our Writers Discuss 'Grindhouse'

Several of us at Cinematical have had the opportunity to see Grindhouse, and we just couldn't stop talking about the movie(s). In fact, four of us decided to haul our virtual selves into a chatroom together so we could rant and argue about what we liked and what we wanted to change and what we wanted to see in a sequel. Kevin Kelly, James Rocchi, Scott Weinberg and I intended to spend maybe 15-20 minutes chatting but the final conversation lasted the better part of an hour. Here are the highlights, which I tried to group into general categories to break things up a little. The spoilers have been removed, so enjoy.


What we liked and disliked overall:

Scott: Aside from a few real moments of drag, courtesy of Tarantino's love affair with his own words, I liked the movie(s) a whole heckuva lot.
Kevin: I loved the experience as a whole, bit then when you break it down film by film, I get more critical. Unfortunately I think people will boil it down to Rodriguez vs. Tarantino
Jette: I liked it, but not as much as I thought I would ... I'm not a big fan of the Tarantino endless conversation.
James: I think the bigggest irony in it is that the lesser filmmaker -- Rodriguez -- made the better film.
Kevin: Yeah, that man loves his own dialogue so much, that you get characters talking like you think he would when you hang out with him.
James: And it's not that that's not fun, but if there's one thing that ,70s B-flicks weren't, it's "talky."
Jette: I think Planet Terror is the better film, but Death Proof has the more grindhouse-ish feel to it.
Scott: Funnier still that Tarantino is definitely the grindhouse expert (Rodriguez admitted as much during his SXSW panel), yet Rodriguez's film seems more in line with the alleged tone of the piece.
James: Death Proof really felt like a mash-up of DePalma and Russ Meyer, in many ways -- killers and cars and chicks.
Scott: Rodriguez went for John Carpenter. Tarantino went for De Palma.
Kevin: Right, just like those old 70s films that Tarantino loves so much, with the addition of talk, talk, talk.
Jette: I didn't think of Russ Meyer, but that's an interesting angle. I was thinking more of The Muthers at the end, but it's actually kind of Faster Pussycat-ish.
Kevin: Well, he didn't have an overt jiggle factor.

More after the jump ...

Scott: but a lot of those 70s movies WERE talk, talk, talk, pause, trailer moments
Kevin: Lots of cute girls, sure, but it didn't feel exploitative.
James: I think that vengeance knows no cup size, though.
Scott: i just don't really get why we're supposed to care about the things Tarantino's characters were babbling about
Scott: the original Gone in 60 Seconds sure didnt have that much blab
Kevin: If it did, I would have been out of my seat in 60 seconds. Zing.
Scott: but we're focusing on the one aspect of the movie(s) that everyone, even the huge fans, are carping about
Jette: Scott, maybe the point is that they're all talking about sexual stuff, and then Stuntman Mike's exploits also have a sexual angle, although he doesn't discuss it.
Kevin: Jette, that's a good point. Especially with the "missing reel" from Tarantino's film.
Scott: One thing I did like about Death Proof: The idea that the (creepy) old stuntman is thwarted by the (sexy) young stuntwoman
Scott: not sure why, but its a funny theme.
Jette: I loved Zoe Bell.
Kevin: I didn't find Stuntman Mike to really be creepy. I more kind of ... felt sorry for him.
James: If this film was supposed to be a tribute to '70s exploitation -- like a cover version of a song -- the Tarantino's movie just felt tonally wrong.
Scott: how about that Kurt Russell tho
Scott: the glue of the piece
Jette: Oh yeah, I wish we'd seen more of Stuntman Mike and heard less of the chitchat.
Kevin: Kurt was really great. He really wore that character well.
James: ABSOLUTELY the glue, and a nice visual reference to '80s [John] Carpenter.
Scott: that role was originally written for Mickey Rourke, but there's no way he could have done better than Russell
Kevin: How weird is it that the "missing reel" is in all the trailers, and seems to be all over the web these days?
Scott: marketing genius
James: Well, if you wanna get someone to play someone who's knocked around Hollywood for years, hire someone who's knocked around Hollywood for years. ...
Jette: So the missing reel was actually shot? I missed that myself.
Kevin: Well, Stuntman Mike was more knocked around BY Hollywood.
Scott: longer and separate versions overseas, promises of missing reels on the DVD release. viva la weinstein
Kevin: Yeah, it was shot and will be on the DVD. Tarantino, Ferlito, and Russell confirmed it at the junket.
James: viva paying for the same damn movie twice.
Scott: maybe on the DVD we'll see what happened to Eli Roth's character
Scott: how silly to set him up as a cad and then deliver no payoff
Jette: I liked that the reel was missing.
Kevin: Yeah, it added to the feel.
Scott: who knew QT had an action scene like that in him?
Kevin: Although the missing/burnt reel from Rodriguez's film was much more effective.
Jette: I agree -- Rodriguez omitted the part that no one wanted to see, and Tarantino omitted the part that everyone (well, all the guys) wanted to see.

Violence in the film:

James: I must say that while I don't know anyone who's died in zombie attacks, I do know people who have died in car crashes, and that was verrrrrry tough to watch.
Scott: i know someone who died in a car driven by a zombie
Jette: The car crash with the first set of four girls was tough to watch.
Jette: Especially since it was lingered over.
Kevin: Yeah, the violence in the Tarantino part, while there wasn't nearly as much as in Planet Terror, was much more visceral and real I felt.
Scott: not lingered, gave you all four kills !
Kevin: Well, I think Jette means they lingered over it from several angles ... in slow-mo ... over and over again.
Scott: I thought both films were very broad, which made the violence pretty cartoonish.
Kevin: I don't know, the Tarantino violence was a lot more in your face. I mean that scene with Rose McGowan? Ouch.
Scott: I've seen worse in xbox games
Kevin: And the "threat" of violence in the Zoe on the hood sequence was pretty mounting and scary.
James: Yeah, but you don't care about XBox games, and they're not 70 feet high in front of you.
Jette: What happened to Ferlito's character was more surprising.
James: And while I sound like a nervy Nelly about Death Proof's crashes, HOLY GOD that was some stunt driving.
Scott: perhaps I'm a desensitized little creep by this point, but none of the violence in this movie 'affected' me like, say, Irreversible or, um, Click
Jette: It didn't feel like real violence to me.
Kevin: Yeah, the driving was amazing in Death Proof. It made me want a muscle car.
Jette: I got a lot more squeamish during Pan's Labyrinth.
Kevin: Speaking of what happens to people, what happens to poor Mary Elizabeth Winstead?
Scott: there's a B story that Death Proof coulda used
Kevin: She said they might be filming something about that for the DVD.
Jette: They needed a little epilogue.
Scott: noooo it should be its own little horror movie
Scott: the guy goes nutty and chases her around the woods or something
Jette: Perhaps she has concealed knives in her pompoms.
Kevin: It could be a Grindhouse 2 trailer. "Abandoned by her friends ... left with a stranger ... "
Kevin: "FOR DEAD"
Kevin: Did she have pompoms? Or are you using a euphemism?
Jette: she was dressed as a cheerleader, there should have been pompoms.

Planet Terror:

Scott: one of my favorite things about the movie is the big goofy ensemble
Scott: getting them to band together and kick butt. done very colorfully
Scott: the audience I saw it with loved Fahey and Biehn together
Kevin: Yeah, it was like a total ragtag Dirty Dozen of the least likely characters.
James: And all the wonderful random character bits -- Michael Biehn and Jeff Fahey!
James: ... and Hottie Sheriff in the tummy-top!
Kevin: They were really great as brothers.
Scott: El Wray is my new hero
James: El WRAY was AWESOME. I want an El Wray/Machete team-up for the prequel!
Kevin: Who knew that Freddy Rodriguez could be so kickass?
Jette: There were some very good-looking guys in Planet Terror -- I was hoping that the ending would be Naveen Andrews and Freddy Rodriguez going off into the sunset together.
Scott: and here's something I don't see mentioned very often: the FX and McGowan's leg?
Scott: pretty amazing, except in one very funny shot where you can clearly see her leg
Scott: she's on the right and hopping away from camera
Kevin: Yeah, and if you look at how they did it, it wasn't just green screen stuff.
Kevin: Pretty amazing image-capture stuff and digital effects.
James: I knew I was over-thinking the movie when I thought "Wait, she's not pulling the trigger or reloading..."
Jette: She was wearing some kind of giant cast, wasn't she?
Kevin: Yeah, with those motion-capture balls on it.
Scott: and give it up for Nicky Katt earning some laughs from a bit part
Jette: who was Nicky Katt?
Scott: the patient in the hospital
Scott: "lose what?"
James: "We're gonna have to lose the arm, Joe."
Jette: ohhh, I remember now.
James: Okay -- what did we want less of in Planet Terror? less Tarantino? Less of the crazy baby-sitters?
Kevin: Yeah, the Babysitter Twins I didn't find too enticing.
Kevin: Oh get this, the doctor showing the creepy medical photos?
Kevin: That's Rodriguez' actual doctor in real life.
James: See, I LIKED that home-town garage-y feel.
Jette: I thought Tarantino was too obvious a casting choice for the rapist. I would have rather had someone less known.
Kevin: If that was my doctor, I'd be changing doctors.
Kevin: I thought Tarantino was much better in Planet Terror than in Death Proof.

The fake trailers:

Scott: I know I sound like a broken record where this guy is concerned, but I just didn't like Rob Zombie's trailer [Werewolf Women of the SS]
Scott: way too on the nose
Jette: I wanted Werewolf Women of the SS to be another feature.
Kevin: Really? That was my least favorite of all the trailers.
Kevin: Edgar Wright's [Don't] was far and away my favorite.
Scott: "Don't" still makes me chuckle when I think about it
Jette: Wright's was my favorite trailer.
James: I don't like Rob Zombie's movies; to me, a short from him is just less time to suck. I *did* love the Hammer-style of 'Don't!"
Scott: where the Brit actors never speak
Scott: lest we know its a "foreign" film
Kevin: Our crowd in the theater loved "Don't"
Jette: in fact I think Don't was one of the best parts of the whole movie, along with the Death Proof car chase and seeing Danny Trejo with all the knives.
James: ... and as much as Eli Roth is a no-talent ass-clown, I LOVED the look of the filmstock and titles in Thanksgiving, PLUS the voice-over from the guy who did the trailer for Shivers!
Scott: Thanksgiving nailed the '80s slasher thing
Scott: that trampoline bit is already legendary
Jette: I still couldn't look at the trampoline bit. I'm a wuss.
Scott: we saw the uncut version
Scott: even worse
Kevin: Yeah, apparently they had to trim that scene DOWN.
Jette: oh, it was trimmed? That's what I get for not looking.
Scott: "trimmed" could be an appropriate word
Kevin: Yeah, apparently that was one of the ratings board notes they had to take to get an R rating.
Scott: and Rodriguez did say that he'd like to turn "Machete" into its own (perhaps DTV) movie? I believe he did
Jette: He said that at SXSW but it didn't sound believable; but since then he's said it again so it's more convincing.
James: .. and was the last scene in the Thanksgiving trailer what I *thought* it was?

[MISSING REEL]

Overall complaints:

James: If I have *one* complaint/comment?
Scott: 15% of Tarantino's dialogue belongs in the Deleted Scenes section. That's my only real complaint.
Kevin: Yeah, less talky, more drivy.
Jette: Kevin's just said what I was thinking, but in a funnier way.
James: I don't care what Rodriguez does on his summer vacation ... But I really want to ask Tarantino, "This? This is what you wanna do with your time instead of something as good and as real as Jackie Brown or Reservoir Dogs?"
Jette: I actually said that in my review, but the review was too long and I had to take it out. It seemed like a waste, in the sense that I'd prefer to see both directors doing something better.
Scott: better than what???
Scott: oh, DRAMA is more worthy than genre?
Kevin: Better than Spy Kids 3.
Jette: My favorite Tarantino film is Jackie Brown.
Scott: puhleeze
Kevin: I think they were both doing something they loved, and I respect them for that.
James: No, Good Coherent Genre is better than sloppy, talky, weird-ass genre.
Kevin: Plus I think if you really asked Tarantino that question, he'd pop you in the mouth. You'd be the next Don Murphy.
Jette: no, Scott, genre is okay, but these films seemed a little lazy.
Scott: i think it lends the genre some credibility when guys with that power decide to "lower themselves" and do something grungy
Jette: I like El Mariachi a lot.
Scott: i dont think theyre lazy at all
Kevin: Jette, yeah that is still Rodriguez's strongest film to me.
Kevin: It has the most story at the heart of it.
Scott: The Reaping is lazy. Planet Terror took a lot of extra effort.
Kevin: He's like George Lucas in a way these days, he loves the effects and the digital toybox.
James: Hey, I'm glad to see Rodriguez make something he didn't make for six-year olds. And I think his segment was great -- it's too short to goof up!
Jette: I'm wondering if Death Proof wasn't a lot longer and made more sense when it was two hours long, because the non-chase scenes just didn't string together well.
Kevin: Yeah, it does seem trimmed a lot.
Kevin: Like, in the 85 minutes we see, there's a slight *hint* of what makes Stuntman Mike tick.
Jette: You have a point, Scott -- I can say "lazy" but these are still some of the best films I've seen this year.

Box office predictions for Grindhouse:

James: Well, will the running time hurt the overall cash flow?
Kevin: Given the way horror has been soaking up cash like a sponge, I say it'll be pretty huge.
Jette: I don't know. How many people want to spend Good Friday watching an exploitation film? (me!)
Scott: i think it will have a very good opening weekend
Scott: and thats about it
Kevin: What better way to celebrate Easter than with a double does of gore.
Jette: Will it beat Blades of Glory? I have no idea.
Kevin: That's a good point, because Blades isn't rated R
Jette: Actually a zombie movie is very fitting for Easter weekend.
Scott: rating doesnt matter
James: Right -- it's not like Mr. and Mrs. Middle-age, Middle-Beow, Middle-America will be inspired by all the buzz ...
Scott: grindhouse does have a built-in audience, the question is How Big is that Audience?
James: Scott nailed it.
Kevin: Rating does matter, it's going to keep a lot of spring breakers out of the theater.
Kevin: Kids are out of school, bored, yet need a parent or guardian to double-feature the Grindhouse.

Grindhouse 2?

James: Okay, let me ask you this: Who would you want to see direct Grindhouse 2?
Jette: Mario Van Peebles.
Kevin: HAHA
Scott: Neil Marshall and Lucky McKee
James: I'd say Edgar Wright with a Vampire film, and then either Zach Snyder or Mary Harron.
Kevin: Well, Ron Howard is a pretty scary director these days.
Kevin: I vote for him.
Scott: Nancy Meyers and Nora Ephron
James: .. Or do it old-school: Carpenter/Sayles.
Scott: oh wait
Jette: why not just go with Richard Rush? he's still around.
Scott: Joe Dante and John Landis
Kevin: Who directed The Hitcher? I totally am spacing on it.
Scott: Harmon
Jette: Scott, you're picking all the Masters of Horror directors.
James: Well, they *are* masters of horror .. it says so on the box!
Scott: well I'm not allowed to say "Eli Roth" around James
James: Right, it makes my granddad-like blood pressure go up ....
Scott: Hostel is a smart film
Scott: i swear it is
Kevin: *cricket cricket*
Scott: fine, more for me
Scott: the guys I'd want to direct Grindhouse 2, you dont even know
Scott: how about Adam Green and Joe Lynch
Jette: now I have to go look them up
Jette: ah, Hatchet.
James: right, but could Harvey and Bob sell those names?
Scott: hell no
James: Right.
Kevin: I think Tarantino and Rodriguez had so much fun that they'd want to do it themselves again.
Scott: Steven Spielberg and Chris Columbus present Grindhouse 2
James: I mean, if you want an argument for "the director is the star" moviemaking and movie marketing, THIS is it.
Kevin: That's scary, just reading it, Scott.
Jette: ewwwwwwwww
Scott: well why not
Jette: Chris Columbus.
James: Hey, if it's Duel and Jaws Spielberg, BRING IT.
Scott: if a director has a distinctive style and pleases the fans
Kevin: I think we could just take some recently released awful movies, re-edit them, and then you've got Grindhouse 2 right there.
Scott: i like Kevin Smith
Scott: i like QT
James: Ooooh, good call, Scott -- Smith and Wright for Grindhouse 2!
Jette: I like Kevin Smith. We own the Clerks II DVD.
Kevin: Clerks 2 just ... completely sucked. In my opinion.
Scott: meh, how can you not love the guy?
James: We're digressing.
Kevin: I can not love the guy, trust me.
Jette: I thought it was delightful. It's an old-fashioned Thirties romantic comedy, but with donkey f**king!
Scott: far from his best, but full of chuckles
Jette: It's probably time to wrap this up.

Final thoughts:

James: Overall: Grindhouse plays to the fans -- and I'm very grateful I was able to see a few flicks at the Alamo Drafthouse before I saw it, as it EXACTLY recreates that experience.
Scott: Grindhouse: It's long, it's strong, it's down to get the friction on.
Kevin: If you see two movies at once this year: it needs to be these two.
Jette: I'd see it again in a theater, but I wouldn't buy the DVD.
Kevin: Oh I'm definitely buying the DVD.
Scott: ha thats good Kevin
Scott: if you see only two movies this year, make it this one
Jette: Although I'd probably rent the DVD to see what the extras were.
James: Seriously, I don't think the movie'd be half as good without the communal shrieks.
Jette: I think Grindhouse really needs to be a theatrical experience.
Scott: an amped crowd is key
James: Right, it's like why medieval latin masses RULED: it's good to be in a big room full of people all fanatacal about the same thing.
Scott: p.s. loved the score
Kevin: Yeah, I downloaded that song from Death Proof.
Kevin: "Hold Tight"
Kevin: I can't stop listening to it.
Kevin: The one by Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick & Tich
Scott: anyway, Grindhouse delivers what it promises, and in big gooey spoonfuls. go see it and be sure to pee beforehand!
Jette: ooh, good sound byte.
Kevin: Yeah, I peed during Werewolf Women of the SS, and missed about half.
Kevin: I was eyeing the popcorn tub on the ground...
Scott: are we done :)
Scott: I'm hungry
Jette: We are done. Thank you very much.