Cinematical

Say it ain't so, Scott! I can't speak for Hostel 2 as I skipped it theatrically, but I can't imagine Hostel maturing well with time. I think the first flick does not deserve the brunt of Splat-Pack, Torture Porn haranguing it receives, however. It was, in the scope of things, a strongly individualistic film and outside the realm of fast-tracked productions that I consider defining of the trend, but it also did a lot of other things with equal vitality. Be laughable and derivative, for instance.

If I'm wrong though, your copy of the dodeca-dip Holo-DVD is on me.

Reply

If you think Hostel 1 is a good film, you know nothing about cinema - nothing at all. You should quit this website and give your job to someone who has an inkling of what a good film is. There is not one moment of good acting, writing or directing in Hostel 1. I actually feel bad for you and your intellect.

Reply

Best review of Hostel 2 - http://geeksofdoom.com/2007/06/08/movie-review-hostel-ii/

"I think they're both damn solid horror movies" -- are you kidding me?!

Reply

Damnit, just when I thought you were learning how to write and get down with that 'objective reviewing' thing you go and write this. What Joe said goes double for me. This blurb sounded like a big wet kiss for Roth, shame on you. And in ten or fifteen more years that vile director and these vile movies will still be the vile torture porn crap they are today.

Reply

@Gilbert: Eli Roth, by contrast one of the tamest horror directs in the game, is now a vile director? How does that work? I've shit all over practically anything the energetic guy has done or announced since Cabin Fever and even I think that is a stretch...

Reply

There are very talented filmmakers in the world. Eli Roth is not on eof them. I don't know him personally - he may be a great guy - but as cimena fans let's start paying attention to the men and women who understand the craft of filmmaking - not some fraternity kids who love blood and guts but have nothing to say about violence or horror or thematics of suspense. The more we speak of hacks like Roth, the more credence he is given and this will continue a cycle of crap. We need to start paying attention to the filmmakers who can add to the medium in interesting ways. Please, let's all start to disciminate.

Reply

I find it interesting that both Hostel and Cabin Fever were universally adored by horror genre critics, yet when the man makes Hostel II, deemed essentially a retread, we call him a hack.

Reply

I think its sad that horrro fans and critics have deemed Hostel 1 or 2 good at all. The genre has been lacking over the years but as a fan of the genre I am willing to wait for some true talent to come along before I accept someone who can't write, and can't direct actors or the camera like Eli Roth. He lacks any elegance or subtlety - there has been some hope in the genre - Boyle's 28 Days Later was elegant - he had something to say and said it well with horror and suspence and craftmenship - Zombie shows some progress in his directing as does Aja but they both need better writers to work with. All I am saying is that let's wait for some true talent to emerge - it will, let's not settle for Roth - it's like dating an average or below average chick because we were desperate and not willing to wait for the girl we really dug.

Reply

Hi Peter, Well Roth has taken a tiny bit of success and spent his budget and time hyping himself up and trying to inflate his own image. As such, and as a purveyor of movies that appeal to sadists and mentally unstable women hating people and whose movies would be approved of by nine out of ten mass murderers and serial killers, Roth does in fact deserve the derision and scorn he gets. His calculated efforts to make third rate movie critics feel special and in the loop has earned him some press and kind words from people who should otherwise know better but it's also made him a visible target for the majority of folks who ignore these types of movies and these type of directors. Most people who make the vile types of torture porn that Roth revels in share the same mind set that you find in German Scat Porn directors and cockroaches, they keep to the darkness and out of sight. Roth tried to take the other path and thanks to the light of day his latest offering failed badly and his prospects for more of the same have diminished. And the world is slightly better for his failures.

Reply

I don't normally comment, but I thought someone should defend Scott. I haven't seen Hostel II, but I think you're right when you say the first one will become more popular in time. I found it to be a good story, though I did think it was told a little awkwardly. But the elements of fear of the unknown and fear of foreigners added something to it that most horror films are lacking.

Reply

Gilbert, let us curb the intentionally incendiary hyperbole, even though I love to use it so much myself. "Nine out of ten mass murders" would approve Hostel? Unlikely, as most 'mass murders' have various socially antithetical motivations; rarely do they do something for a purely superficial high. But I'm not even going to begin to be a douche bag and ponder what enjoyment a mass murderer may or may not get out of Hostel, because we both know the flick isn't deep enough to warrant such conversation.

What calculated efforts? As far as I know, the only obvious relationship Roth has with any critics are the AICN crew and if you've ever listened to the Cabin Fever commentary or read how that friendship formed, you'll know it was pure chance, not some premeditated business acumen.

As for the German Scat Porn/cockroach talk, just who exactly are these other directors you're talking about? As far as the people who get lumped into the torture porn label go, I don't think any of the hiding in darkness behavior applies. Darren Lynn Bousman is a constant fan voice heard in the genre. Roland Joffe is an Academy Award nominee, even if he did break his spine stooping so low. Rob Zombie is an instantly recognizable public icon. Takashii Miike is, as far as the Asian market is concerned, even more of a public figure; though his brand of ultraviolence is anachronistic in this whole debate, anyway. Who are the other recluses you speak of? Ryan Nicholson, Tim Sullivan, and Jeremy Kasten have all been open and talkative on the festival circuit - and I know this without even remotely being part of any festival circuit. You've got to back up this bait up, man.

Please don't blanket paint the people who make this brand of horror as phantom perverts or cancerous growths on society. They are making simple movies for a simple market. As far as I'm concerned, their only crime towards you, or anyone, is being successful. I too am glad that the failure of Hostel 2 has made Roth's next feature an uphill battle. I hope he tries a helluva lot harder than he has been.

You can't make these character assassinations without planting your feet somewhere other than, 'That shit is gross and for degenerate pervs!' territory. When you do that you're being as equally simple minded as the films, filmmakers and fans you believe below you. And while we're at it, I think you're quite the asshole for going out of your way to call Scott a 'mentally unstable woman hater' just because he dug a flick you didn't. Same goes to joe and his baseless vitriol.

I know this is the Internet we're on, but Christ, is all civility dead?

Reply

Peter -
"I know this is the Internet we're on, but Christ, is all civility dead?"
Oh the irony. Complaining about civility while defending torture porn and the purveyors of it. I would stand by my opinion and be comfortable stating it in front of anyone, I doubt you could say the same. And to say that mass murderers and serial killers who derive satisfaction from torturing and killing would also like movies which have no other purpose but to gratify people with similar interests would also like these types of movies isn't any kind of a stretch. Horror is different from torture porn, simple.

As for the other directors you named, don't know them except for Rob Zombie from White Zombie. Niche directors known only to the faithful like yourself. Which proves that point.

Reply

Gilbert, I thought it was pretty obvious that I am comfortable standing by my opinion in front of anyone when I did just that. I don't know anyone who has written anything on this post, yet I've clearly had no problem standing by my opinion.

"Horror" is no different from torture porn. These torture porn movies operate on a more directly exploitative level, but that doesn't inherently invalidate them as horror. I can draw a Venn diagram, if that'll make this simple principle easier for you to understand.

My listing of those directors does not prove any point of yours. If anything, it reinforces the fact that you had no clue who these people were or what movies they make. If you don't even know they exist in the first place, how can you judge them?

Reply