Discuss: This Millennium's Movie Misogyny

All right, I'm a guy, so maybe I don't "get it" or something, but to call the following movies misogynistic is ridiculous or shortsighted:

Superbad
The Holiday
Sin City (this one I can almost understand, but I think they completely missed the point of the movie...which, just so we're clear and no one can say I'm giving it a free pass, wasn't to be misogynistic)
Hustle & Flow
Wedding Crashers
13 Going on 30
Spanglish
Bridget Jones's Diary

And while I've not seen it, calling Brown Bunny misogynistic SOLELY because Chloe Sevigny actually gave Vincent Gallo a real blowjob? It's not like she was FORCED, you know.

Let's make a clear distinction here: Critcizing Superbad for its alleged misogyny (which is actually non-existent) and not singling out something truly offensive like American Wedding? That shows a true lack of perspective.

Seriously, the linked piece is one of the worst I've seen in a while.

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How on earth did they miss _The Wicker Man_?

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I believe The Holiday and Spanglish were actually crimes against humanity - so the makers don't just hate women. They want everyone to suffer.

As for the female leads being neurotic, aren't all characters neurotic in some way? All people? Maybe I'm wrong. I haven't personally met anyone who is actually free from neuroses of some kind.

I understand what you're saying though. We don't have a lot of movies with female leads which don't end with that damn wedding scene, and-they-lived-happily-ever-after crap. I can think of two last year: Juno and Waitress. Both involved unplanned pregnancy. Hmmm.

Persepolis?

I got nothin'.

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I think Sofia Coppola is making films with strong, complex female characters. All three of her features feature lost women in romantic (or platonic) relationships, but none of these relationships define the women, and they're allowed to be flawed beings. I'd also look at Miranda July's film "Me You and Everyone We Know," which has a couple of strong, independent female characters, several of which are the clear owners of their own sexuality, which reminds me of Sally Potter's "Yes." All done by female directors, but I'd include Pedro Almadovar's recent films in that category too, notably "All About My Mother" and "Volver." Just this year we got "Away From Her."

It's hard to think of big budget releases that are that good in their depiction of female characters, but as KateGee suggested, "Persepolis" definitely fits the bill too.

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Just to follow up quickly (or verbosely), I only scanned the list breifly, but the inclusion of both "Superbad" and "Knocked Up" is pretty ridiculous. Both films are obviously from a male point of view, but the women in those films are allowed to be funny, and allowed to defy the expectations of the males and are not the rigid stereotypes that Heigl and Radar seem to see them as. Leslie Mann is one of the best things about "Knocked Up," and for all the complaining she does throughout the film, she doesn't come off as a (paraphrasing Heigl) "shrill killjoy," she comes off as a responsible parent who's fed up with a husband taking a backseat to his parenting. On the same token, Heigl's character is completely justified in every complaint against Ben throughout the film, and I don't think that film portrays Ben's lifestyle as a good thing. One of the major points in the film is that Ben needs to grow up, and Allison helps him do that, while remaining an imperfect person herself.

So "Knocked Up" is a portrayal of that situation from a male perspective, and "Superbad" is a portrayal of adolescence from a male perspective. I think the reports of misogyny are greatly exaggerated.

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You know, I've often found that there is a lack of movies where the main character is a woman, that really were appealing to both sexes. As a guy, I identify with movies where the main character overcomes some personal foible, and gets the girl. But really, I don't mind movies that probe the other side of the equation... women! After all, Doc Brown did say it was the ultimate mystery of the universe!
Mean Girls is the only movie in recent memory that achieved what so many other movies should do - and it's probably one of my favourites even though every single main character is female.... that shouldn't be a problem, normally, but most female screenwriters are either lesbians, stupid, or know better than to write a chick flick about chicks dealing with chick problems!

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I couldn't agree more with this list (except, of course, The Wicker Man remake should be in there). Furthermore, I find this comment extraordinarily demonstrative and painfully offensive:

"Both films are obviously from a male point of view, but the women in those films are allowed to be funny, and allowed to defy the expectations of the males..."

Wow! Seriously, did you just say the women are 'allowed to be funny'? Who allowed us to be funny, Nick? Lucky us! Do you not realise that that's like saying 'Film X isn't racist because the black people are allowed to be law-abiding'?

As an aside, how many films can we all name that end with an adult female protagonist being alive, happy and not in love? It's really not many. Misogyny is rife in Hollywood.

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I believe that you are an illustration of the point of the article. It does exist. Not only does mysogyny exist, but adolescent world views prevail overall. D'uh.

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I haven't read the article, but I read Nick's comment as meaning:

"You could argue that a film was misogynistic if the (writers/directors) didn't allow the female characters to be funny, whereas Superbad/Knocked Up certainly do".

If you're uncomfortable with the word 'allow', I'd point out that it is quite frequently used in describing/critiquing films without meaning anything about societal constraints reflected in it, for example "the script allows for a lot of comedy".

That was my impression of his post even before I read the two replies criticising it. I've not seen Knocked Up, but I really can't see a problem with Superbad. A few girls use three stupid guys to get them alcohol for their party. Comedy ensues.

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I think anything by Neil Lebute is a given as being on the list.

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How many male characters end a movie alive, happy, and not in love? The problem isn't simply that women are stereotyped in all films, but rather that all characters are stereotypical to a certain extent in film. Monika listed at least three different types of characters in mainstream films, all of which do have stereotypical aspects of it. But I don't find that as sexist as one would make it out to be. Certainly the sexist characteristics are there, but as I said previously, that stereotyping exists for all major releases. That is due to the fact that Hollywood prefers to make formulaic films with formulaic characters. Take a look at the much criticized Judd Apatow movies on this list. The female characters are much more positive characters than any of the male leads. Knocked Up is often cited as an example of mysoginistic film making, but the female leads are much more positive characters then the males, and they are very funny (not "allowed" to be funny, merely funny). Why is there not an equally vehement male backlash to this film? I'm a 26 year old male, but I don't smoke pot, I don't get drunk 5 nights a week, I plan no being a responsible parent and I treat my girlfriend with respect and love. Just a thought.

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I agree with some of these, but I have to admit I also think they missed the boat on others. Superbad, for example. For starters, the characters whose perspectives we're seeing are in high school and the film is largely about their eyes being opened to how the world "really works." Evan and Seth are naive hormone-driven male teens, and their portrayal isn't particularly unrealistic. They DO think with their dicks, but that doesn't mean the film condones this in terms of its thematic message. Keep in mind that the ending shattered both of their perceptions of the opposite sex. Evan realized that he wanted to be with someone who liked him for who he was, not just because she was drunk; and Seth realized that he can be liked by sober people as well, and that they like him better when he's not being a drunk idiot. Neither knew any better and they learned the hard way that they had been total morons.

The entire film set up the fact that both of them have a lot of insecurities to get over and a lot of growing up left to do. Seth's penis obsession, for example, had a lot more meaning than just being a silly gag. It's based in an element of truth and it left him feeling very confused and emasculated, because films and societal influences far more misogynistic than Superbad have taught him that a "real man" is all about the ladies. That's a hard thing for a young male to deal with and not many films address it.

Sin City is also a bit trickier than it seems on the surface. For one, it makes no attempts to hide what it is about. It's not masquerading in sheep's clothes, like Mona Lisa Smile, for example, and I think that makes it far less offensive.

For one, it's intended as a throwback to classic film noir, and that by definition requires the film to be rather pessimistic. Yes, women get raped, beaten and beheaded, but to be fair, in Frank Miller's world, the men aren't any safer, particularly the men causing the violence against women and the opposing men trying to stop them. Rapist Yellow Bastard gets his junk bashed in; Kevin the lady killer gets fed to a wolf; violent Jackie Boy gets his hand removed before his own zeal leads to his death; even the corrupt priest played by Frank Miller himself is violently killed. Confused anti-hero Marv and only-good-cop Hartigan don't fare much better. It's a nasty, hopeless, corrupt world that these characters inhabit and yet everyone is trying their damndest to make it work. Given that context, violence itself takes on a whole new meaning and to point out that women are getting the short end of the stick is oversimplifying things a little. The article is sure quick to gloss over the fact that the only people in the whole story who have their $h1t together are the prostitute gang. In a story with this much moral ambiguity and despair, that actually does still have some meaning.

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ET:
I didn't mean it to be offensive, and I apologize if it came off sounding so. What I meant by "allowed to be funny" is that in MOST hollywood movies they aren't allowed to be funny, or "wacky" or irreverant. Most of the comedic roles for women (of which there are few) in Hollywood are pretty straight, and require the woman to be attractive (not just physically) at all times, and often at the expense of humor. I said "allowed" because in most movies the male characters are "allowed" to be the funny, saracastic characters who have faults. Who's "allowing" them? The filmmakers, the studio. It's not an offensive concept to say that filmmakers have a control over what appears on screen. I would say the same thing about male characters being "allowed" to cry. I'm in no way implying that women need permission to be funny, which is why I cited a number of female filmmakers who generate their own material. Films are not a democracy, they come from a singular point of view, and I find complaints of content in these instances to be insulting to the filmmakers who express THEIR individual point of view.

I haven't seen Good Luck Chuck, but from the trailer I'm pretty sure I get the jist of the obese woman in the film that Dane Cook is disgusted by. Look at that one dimensional, offensive, closed-minded character that's supposed to be "gross out" funny, and compare it to Leslie Mann's character in the 40 Year Old Virgin.
I'm very tired and probably not explaining this well, but hopefully that clears up what I meant.

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I'm going to skip the entire topic of misogyny and go for cinematic trends. I'm tired of the basic plot in which a female who has tons going for her somehow falls in love with a male slacker, comedy ensues, happily-ever-after. It's just been overdone.

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Tom: Thank you for summarizing my point much better than I did. That's all I meant by allow.

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Yes, women are now "allowed" to be funny. At least according to the new Vanity Fair. Oh yes and these funny women can be "almost beautiful".

The post on Radar was written just to generate site hits. They took some currently popular movies, some "surprise" chick flicks and threw on the word mysoginistic (which sounds smarter then "sexist"). They wrote about one to two sentences about each movie and called it a day.

I think the real problem with some of the movies they mention is that they appeal to the lowest common denominator. A lot of movies don't create a real character they just use a characture (sp?). It has more to do with marketing and money then anything.

I think the Bridget Jones example is also just thrown in for attention. My wife and her friends like that movie and book because they can easily identify with and share the experiences of Bridget. (I also find the "Bridget Jones" version of Renee Zellweger much cuter then her waify thin version).

While I do agree that many men are threatened by smart and funny women, I think this list is just used as an attention getter.

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I will never, ever understand how Hostel 2 is called misogynistic. And it seems to be all the time.

Yes, women get killed in it. Buffalo Bill killed women exclusively in Silence of the Lambs, but that wasn't deemed misogynistic.


The men in Hostel 2 are all uniformly evil. All of them. They're all scum. Several of them are cowards.

The strongest character, the most flawless character, the most powerful character, is a female. The winner is a female. The survivor is a female.

How a movie full of terrible characters with one exception, a female exception, is considered misogynistic...

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