Fan Rant: What's with the Psychopaths on Rotten Tomatoes?
Filed under: Fandom, NSFW, Comic/Superhero/Geek, Fan Rant
Let's take a moment to talk about the internet and the people who use it.As someone who writes for a fairly prominent blog and who, from time to time, gets a fact wrong or overlooks something (when you do several posts a day, it's hard to be perfect), I am familiar with the wrath that internet commenters can unleash. But I am quickly coming to realize that you, gentle readers, have indeed been gentle. If you have a moment, take a look at the Rotten Tomatoes page for The Dark Knight, and click through some of the comments that users have left for the critics who have dared give the film a negative review. Or, to save time, take a look at this piece by Hollywood Bitchslap's Rob Gonsalves, which discusses some of the worst (best?) examples. If you're not inclined to click, suffice it to say that the likes of The New Yorker's David Denby have been told that they "do not deserve to live," that they should "contract AIDS," that they "rode the short bus to school," that "I should go over to your house and beat the living ***** out of you low life son of a b!tch," and so forth.
It's funny: there's been a long, ongoing discussion about RT user comments in the internal forums of the RT-hosted Online Film Critics Society. Some of the critics, outraged by the insulting, often racist missives that appear on the review pages (a Brazilian critic writing in Portuguese is often informed that he should go back to Mexico, etc.), have called for comments to be deleted and for users to be disciplined or banned. I've resisted and discouraged that impulse: it's always preferable to laugh at people like this than to censor them.
So I'm not trying to call for Rotten Tomatoes to more vigilantly moderate its comment threads, or anything like that. Rather, I'm trying to understand something, namely: who are these people? I know plenty of geeks, and none of them would ever go on the internet to yell "f*** you!" at David Edelstein -- at least I don't think so. Would they? Are these perfectly nice individuals who take advantage of internet anonymity to vent their spleen? Who gets this profanely, inarticulately angry at negative reviews of a movie they haven't even seen yet?
Reading some of those comment threads is like entering an alien world. Some of the messages are meant to be ironic, I gather, but they get lost in the abyss of purposeless rage. Even hardcore partisan political blogs, where people are discussing things of much greater significance than one magazine's take on The Dark Knight, rarely get this nasty.
The comments are awful in a lot of ways -- almost all of them are thoughtless, knee-jerk insults. But some, like the ones I've quoted, are just astonishing, to the point where I actually want to meet the people who posted them, out of sheer curiosity. Some readers here are no doubt better tapped into the fan community than I am. So I ask you: What's the deal? Is this just a particularly dim-witted subset of fanboy culture? A repulsive example of the internet's herd mentality? Who are these people, and what's their problem?
(By the way, I saw The Dark Knight yesterday morning, and agree that David Denby is wrong. But I bear the man no ill will whatever.)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
7-15-2008 @ 9:29PM
Gina said...
If you think THAT'S bad, try IMDb sometime.
I think it's just something the Internet brings out in people, sadly, because there's a lot of it on all kinds of different sites. I guess anonymity plus easy access plus strong opinions plus isolation equals insanity.
Reply
7-15-2008 @ 9:35PM
Sam said...
This post is terrible, why do you live?
;)
Reply
7-15-2008 @ 9:42PM
uforeader said...
Internet blogs, forums, and comment areas are a perfect storm. Take highly opinionated people, add opinions that differ from theirs, sprinkle in celebrities and internet anonymity, and you've got some nasty internet posts.
I just noticed all those comments today myself on rottentomatoes. I think it's even worse over on imdb's message boards. I don't know what it is. These people just seem incapable of being kind. I think it's some sort of sick power trip. The most confusing thing to me is why they do it. It speaks a lot more to their character than it does the character of the person they're attacking.
On imdb, it's particularly bad on the message boards of directors and actors... Shyamalan, Tarantino, Tom Cruise, etc. Something about tearing down the most famous people. Human nature must love to build up stars and then tear them down.
Reply
7-15-2008 @ 9:48PM
Gina said...
Oh, and I hate to say it, but I've seen political blogs get REALLY nasty.
Reply
7-15-2008 @ 10:27PM
malren said...
Penny Arcade answered this question once. It's the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory. Normal person + Anonymity + Audience = Total Fuckwad.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/
Reply
7-15-2008 @ 10:27PM
adrian conlon said...
I am one of thoses geeks you are refering to and I admit sometimes I do go too far like today when i read the first negative reviews of the Dark Knight i became very frustrated because i have seen the film and consider it to be a masterpiece and commented on impulse to let the reviewer know what i thought even though he most likely will never read it but I would never wish any ill will on him or anyone else but sometimes when you love something so much you want to fight for it. I know that sounds crazy but thats how passionate I and others feel although I do not condone threating people that takes it too far but i lie in the middle. I will let them know what I think I mean It would be different if we were talking about a crap film like Batman and Robin you would not get this reaction because everyone hated it even the fanboys but if you were like me and others alike then you would know that this film was gonna be amazing long before it came out. I know thats hard for a lot of people to understand but we knew just like we knew Batman and Robin was gonna flop. I mean one of the reviewers called Nolan a hack who could not shoot action I felt insulted and frustrated and know i shouldn't because it's aimed at Nolan not me but I can't help it it felt like it was at me. Also it seems as though a group of New York critics have banded together to bash the film fo no reason whats so ever other than it;s too dark and grim well maybe they should go watch Mamma Mia instead. I know am such a big geek but guess what? You may think I'm a loser but look I have a great social life and party nightly in Soho in London, A beautiful girlfriend, and a great family I could not be happier so I think if you label us all geeks who never leave their room then you are never gonna understand.
Reply
7-15-2008 @ 10:34PM
Dunkin Donuts said...
Reading this mea culpa / justification is like watching an amoeba try to develop into a multicellular organism. It's kind of cute...
7-15-2008 @ 10:34PM
Eugene Novikov said...
"Geek" is not an insult, at least not from me (a geek).
7-16-2008 @ 2:46AM
LordPaul said...
Kudos for posting using your name (if it is your real name) but there is no real justification for internet dickery
7-15-2008 @ 10:39PM
Sam said...
As far as the quality of commenters go, Cinematical should consider itself VERY lucky. Even on "prestige" sites like Newsweek, the crazies come out of the woodwork.
Reply
7-15-2008 @ 11:27PM
victor de la torre said...
You have to admit there are some critics quoted on RT who clearly give negative reviews to great films just to call attention to themselves or to be "different" from the others. BTW, do you happen to know what was Denby's rating? I noticed it was the only rotten rating in the "Top Critics" category and yet TDK's overall rating was considerably affected.
Reply
7-15-2008 @ 11:42PM
GC said...
Victor,
acually, no. No one has to admit that there "are some critics quoted on RT who clearly give negative reviews to great films just to call attention to themselves or to be 'different' from others". What makes you think you even know this? David Denby has been writing film reviews probably since before you were born. Do you honestly think that he saw "The Dark Knight", KNEW in his heart of hearts that it was great, but at the last second said to himself, "watch me stick it to these fanboys!" The idea is totally preposterous. Call me crazy but maybe - MAYBE - there actually might be some people who don't like it. WOW.
Personally, I really want to see it, so there is a good possibility that I'll like it a lot. I loved "Batman Begins" and I also think Chris Nolan is a great great director. That said, there is a possibility - however remote - that I end up not liking it.
It's like you completely ignored the whole point of the blog entry above.
7-16-2008 @ 12:11AM
victor de la torre said...
OK.. but what was his rating? was it that bad to give it a harsh rating? judging by the other top critics I think not.. I didn't have the courage of reading Denby's review because of all the comments regarding the spoilers in it (I'll do that after seeing TDK). Nasty post comments should not be allowed in any civilized website (you could have reacted with a "*#$* you" to my comment and yet you didn't and effectively commented on how you didn't think my post was accurate)... I apologize if my post was irritating in a way... I was just intrigued by how one man's rating really affected a 100% rating.
7-15-2008 @ 10:43PM
adrian conlon said...
lol So what you trying to say?
Reply
7-15-2008 @ 11:02PM
TOMWAITSJR said...
. . . Yah, but some of us have fun. Read the SPACE CHIMPS threads we started as a joke.
RT forum readers, are for the most part, more intelligent than those of any other film site.
Most of us don't seriously mean the things we say. If you feel insulted by the emotional level of some responses, I suggest you put on a CD of James Taylor singing "Sweet Baby James." then I suggest you take a hot bath, then I suggest you dump the plugged in music player into your bath and die a violent death that I will laugh at. I will laugh at you, as you evacuate your bowels, and are found all naked and full of PooH. Just like an enemy of the movie "Space Chimps."
Reply
7-15-2008 @ 11:54PM
Justin B said...
Great topic to talk about.
I post only rarely on IMDB anymore. I never have posted at all on rottentomatoes.
Why have there been (according to someone on IMDB) 112 positive reviews for the movie, and 4 negative? What's with that? Granted, they may be having mixed reviews made into positive for the count, but only 4 negative? Seems odd to me. Especially with 3 out of the 4 being from new york. Not sure if the negative STAR review was based out of NY, but it's odd that in those negative reviews, they all praise Burton's or (small) areas of Shumacher's take on batman.
Not trying to say that they're biased reviews, only that it's odd to me.
Also that they are terribly written reviews. Denby's especially. Writing a page and a half review about how depressing a movie is? I just got done reading a review from a guy who said he didn't like it, but praised it for its sheer cinematic pleasure.
I guess I can now voice my hatred for Annie Hall. Retarded movie, but impeccably put together. Just because I didn't like it, doesn't mean it's not a very well constructed movie. Jesus.
I expected more from you Denby.
Reply
7-16-2008 @ 12:27AM
Justin B said...
Just an aside; I was referring to Denby's poor choice of wording in his review.
Read it. It reads terribly.
The page and a half review about how depressing it is was came from one of the other ny mags. Written by David Edelstein if I'm correct. His review is even worse. If you think something is not happy, that's fine by me.
...Please, just don't base your ENTIRE FUCKING review telling us about that. Oh, and then abruptly go into an entirely different review for Mamma Mia and The Exiles.
7-16-2008 @ 12:34AM
Claire said...
I have seen parallels drawn between the psychological idea of the Mob Mentality and the say-anything attitude of comment/message boards. one day there will be a term like mob mentality to describe this. a term for why (presumably) decent people would go so far as to say such horrible, threatening things anonymously to nearly complete strangers.
part of the reason is there is no consequence. there is no way for anyone to know who you are and that you said what you did....or any real way to respond to what you say. there is no one to call you out by your name and ask you to hold yourself accountable for what you say in front of the rest of society. if that were possible people would think alot harder/clearer before leaving such disrespectful comments.
hasn't it occurred to anyone that this is not the way to influence the people who they disagree with. there are better ways of expressing your opinion that telling people they wrong and thus don't deserve to live. Maybe all those Dark knight fans can tell the critics why Dark Knight is an awesome movie instead of threating bodily harm. or better yet don't read their reviews of it. i mean we're supposed to be evolving here; more tolerance and understanding, less hate and ignorance.
Reply
7-16-2008 @ 12:34AM
John said...
well i have just checked rottentomatoes on this guy, and to tell the truth he aint a good critic, i saw that he gave Iron Man a bad review, im not saying its great but its not bad either, while he gave the terrible Hancock a great review, i mean he needs to realize he just bashes movies he wants too and praises the garbage movies like Hancock!
Reply
7-16-2008 @ 12:36AM
Eugene Novikov said...
Oh hell, I'll fan the flames: Hanock was better than Iron Man. So go figure that one out.
I'm not convinced that whether or not someone is a "good critic" can be discerned from what he thought of three randomly selected summer blockbusters, but I could be wrong.