The Geek Beat: What Shall We Do With the Justice League?
Filed under: Fandom, Comic/Superhero/Geek, The Geek Beat
It's official. Justice League is dead in the water. The last man standing, director George Miller, has dropped out and the film goes back Warner Bros archives -- something I imagine to be similar to the warehouse at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. Reportedly, Miller told an Australian television audience that Warner Bros wants "bigger stars" in the Justice League movie, and that he believes it will be recast. That's not at all surprising, considering the way the world is wetting their pants over Warner/DC's super competitors, The Avengers, which is probably going to be nothing but A-List. What studio wouldn't look at the line-up for Justice League Mortal, where no one compares to Robert Downey Jr., and say "Thanks, but no thanks."
Honestly, I don't know if there can ever be a Justice League movie. Correct me if I'm wrong (and I know you will) but what JLA fans want is exactly what Marvel is doing with The Avengers -- a bunch of solo character movies, establish the universe and the continuity, and then launch a superhero team extravaganza. They want good actors of the appropriate age, not a bunch of young and pretty things. They want it to be a solid effort, not something hastily thrown together for a late summer cash grab -- which is all Justice League Mortal seemed to be. (No offense to all involved, but hey, we're on the outside looking in here.)
Honestly, I don't know if there can ever be a Justice League movie. Correct me if I'm wrong (and I know you will) but what JLA fans want is exactly what Marvel is doing with The Avengers -- a bunch of solo character movies, establish the universe and the continuity, and then launch a superhero team extravaganza. They want good actors of the appropriate age, not a bunch of young and pretty things. They want it to be a solid effort, not something hastily thrown together for a late summer cash grab -- which is all Justice League Mortal seemed to be. (No offense to all involved, but hey, we're on the outside looking in here.)
Reportedly, this is what Warner Bros now wants to do -- but I think they missed the boat back in 2005 because of a small, independent film you might have heard of called Batman Begins. I think Christopher Nolan effectively killed the Justice League by setting up a Gotham City that hadn't heard of superheroes or comic books, and would never lend itself to the crossovers that Marvel is meticulously setting up. You can't cry foul, since that's exactly why we liked Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, but it automatically removed a VIP of the League.
So, what do you do? Leave Batman out? That's practically heresy. The only option is to recast him, and create a flashier Batman that exists solely in a universe with the JLA. While I think that could work, it's hardly the streamlined approach that Warner Bros could hope for -- and it's going to wreck havoc with the brains of mainstream audience members. Comic book fans are used to alternate universes and Ultimate line-ups; precious areas of our brains are devoted to keeping it all straight. (Seriously, guys, we could probably cure cancer if we freed up the brain cells devoted to this arduous task!) Losing that mainstream audience is fatal -- let's face it, we nerds weren't the only reason The Dark Knight made a gazillion dollars, it was the ordinary people who recognize Batman, and dig a solid movie about him. I don't think those people are not going to accept anyone but Christian Bale in the role for a very long time.
Luckily, a very long time is what, at the moment, the Justice League has. Despite all the summit meetings and secret superhero plans, we have yet to see an origin movie for a DC character. (I'm leaving Superman Returns out of that equation -- it wasn't an origin movie, and even if they never got around to rebooting him, nothing about it removes Superman from a JLA line-up.) Wonder Woman, the Green Lantern, the Flash, even Superman -- everyone is just sitting, waiting, twiddling their thumbs as their scripts are rewritten again and again. As soon as someone, like the Green Lantern or Wonder Woman get close, the whole project vanishes. It's really frustrating to be a DC fan these days.
The delays pose an interesting thought -- could Warner Bros and DC take so long that Nolan's series might be complete, and audiences would be comfortable with a new Batman? And might not that be the best thing anyway, when you have The Avengers looming so large? Again, you have to think of those mainstream audiences, who are probably just going to be confused and disgusted by competiting franchises, and might begin avoiding both sets of superheroes.
I've posed a lot of questions here, and offered up a bunch of unsatisfying answers. Admittedly, as a Marvel girl, I don't have a lot of interest or investment in the JLA. But like any comic book fan, I want to see the properties done right because the fans and the characters deserve it. I'm at a loss as to how Justice League ever can be. But given that negative fan reaction supposedly sunk Justice League Mortal, I think it falls to the fans to decide the fate of the JLA -- and what better place to do it than right here? It's all yours, readers.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
12-02-2008 @ 1:20PM
Eric said...
They only way you can do it, Is do it all in cgi and make it look like kingdom come. Higher some great voice talent and really poor some money into the thing get a great director someone who understands animation and how to use it powerfully. It would make millions.
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12-02-2008 @ 1:36PM
Rich said...
The only real way to do a live justice movie, is to do one of the B teams and not the orginal JL group. I would love to see the JLA in movie, Booster Gold and Blue Beetle? Count me in...
If they want to keep the orginal JL line up, then they need to revamp the story a little and keep Batman more as a figure in the background. I never bought the whole Batman is in the thick of it with the rest of the JL. He'd be more likely their intel officer, dropping hints were to go, who's doing what and being the cavalry. I am not sure how Nolan's Batman would hold up in a world with real super humans/aliens.
Personally, keep he JL a cartoon or CG. The Justlice League and JL Unlimited shows are pretty cool, fun to watch and could easily be expanded into a real movie. Hell, some of the JL/JLU movies are better than some crap in the theaters.
Marvel got it right for the Avengers. They have the main characters under one roof, they are subtly linking them together (Iron Man to the Avenger Project, Hulk to Iron Man) and it will make it a smooth transistion from solo to group. DC doesn't have luxury with the 2 main franchises of the JL Batman/Superman.
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12-02-2008 @ 1:53PM
Tucker said...
Eh, no big. The only reason I even wanted a Justice League movie was for Green Lantern, so if we can just go ahead and get that movie made I'll be good.
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12-02-2008 @ 1:54PM
Clark Parker said...
A high end CGI film COULD work... If they got their act together and decided to do it the Justice it deserves (of course it was intended) but even that would fall short of the potential it has. Marvel is going about it the only way possible. It simply needs to be a group of already established characters, anything else would feel like a cheap, one-off cash grab. Not to mention the time and effort saved not having to give each character a back-story while Simultaneously balancing each character's arc.
I think the best idea really is to work around Nolan's efforts and find a way to introduce everyone to that reality without contradicting the previous films. Could Superman's story line not take place AFTER Batman began? He spends years in training or whatever at the Fortress, so could they not imply that his big outing occurs sometime after Batman established himself? After that, a series of origin films for the other members could follow suit, with each of them donning their respective masks in present day, making Batman (the favorite anyhow) the oldest and original Superhero.
When Nolan was discussing that scene in Begins, the one on the plane, he said it proves Batman exists in a world without Superheroes, stating that he clearly was not influenced by their existence. Could they not just twist that around and agree that yes, he was the original but since then others have cropped up? I mean, they plan to Reboot Superman again anyhow and you don't need to suggest he crashed in modern times, just that he didn't don his cape until after the events of the Batman films... It's a timeless metropolis anyhow. I don't want to suggest using Welling, that's a whole other can of worms but I think it's fair to imply Batman is a little older and Clark is still living in Smallville during the events of Begins and TDK.
Granted, that's as shoehorned as you can get but if they REALLY feel the need to create this film, it's certainly a better idea then CGI tweens.
Really though, I think everyone is over thinking it. Yes, Nolan has a solid point about Batman's origin in his film and yes the both of those movies play out as an isolated universe where other Heroes don't exist and don't really even seem plausible but is that really a game breaker? Would the mainstream audience even notice or care? Would all not be forgiven just for the chance to see these men standing side by side? I remember getting goosebumps just seeing Routh and Bale standing side by side at that awards show...
Either way, Batman is a money making machine and a clear favorite, if only because he has been given more chances to get it right then the others, so a JLA film that put him front and center would put butts in seats, sure people would complain that he was taking all the attention, the same as they complained that the X-men were little more then Wolverine and Friends movies but honestly... People are going to complain no matter what they do.
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12-02-2008 @ 5:20PM
JAF said...
Dude, well said. All it would take is a scene in a rebooted Superman flick with Clark seeing a report on TV or a newspaper about this Batman guy. And like Heroes or Smallville, there are 'event's that are the impetus for super powered beings. You never really get a sense in X-Men of how long or when the original superpowered mutants came into being. But it is in modern times where there are exponentially more of them and you can't not know what is going on.
So back to how and what movie to do.
I do think that Kingdom Come would be an awesome choice. And if DC has not had a chance for solo efforts from Green Lantern, Flash and Wonder Woman by then, I say to heck with explaining any origins. You didn't get origins with X-Men and that seemed to go fine. Cyclops has optic rays. We did eventually see a young Jean Grey in X3 and of course bits of Wolverine's origin. But now look - after THREE movies, they are going BACK to do origin stories. Jeez. I was originally a DC guy first and then Marvel and always both, but come on. I mean, you guys are Warner Brothers! Movies were first, then you picked up DC. So if anyone should have the fast track it should be Jeff Rubinov. The guy is from my hometown of Portland ME, and it pains me to see all of this sputtering around like a Yugo on a tank of bad gas. Take the momentum from TDK and just do it already.
And while I'm ranting...
You need to make The Dark Night Returns!
Bruce Willis as Bruce Wayne/Batman
Patrick Warburton as Superman
Ali Lohan as Carrie Kelly / Robin
John Schneider as Oliver Queen
ahhh, it'll never happen.
12-02-2008 @ 5:32PM
Charles said...
I have to disagree, leaving Batman out of the JLA is a smart move.
Actually dividing the DCU into the Nolan-verse where human heroes like Batman and the Green Arrow exist, and a 'magic' universe where Super heroes like Superman and Wonder Woman live makes logical sense.
What doesn't make sense - as Nolan himself sees - is a mere human being ie Batman running around at best say 23mph with the Supers like the Flash who run at 30,000 mph.
IMHO they should give Superman and Wonder Woman their period origin's back competing with Captain America. Because Superman was first. Then bring the Super Heroes together for a Kingdom Come style Movie.
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12-02-2008 @ 2:12PM
Astin said...
Like Clark up there said - you could just play with the timeline.
Batman becomes the inspiration for other heroes. You have Superman, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter show up after Batman has made his mark in Gotham. No reason Supes can't appear in Metropolis then. Going with a Donner-like origin, then the world hasn't heard of him until that day he saves Lois from the helicopter crash. No need for Superboy.
Wonder Woman's basic origin can have her show up any time. Same with Manhunter.
Green Lantern, Flash, etc, can all be inspired by these other heroes to take on the mantle and fight. It's not that hard.
As for where Nolan's Batman fits in, go with the early JL Unlimited idea and have him be an unofficial member. He advises, helps when necessary, but generally keeps his distance, does his own thing, and doesn't fully approve of the League. They did a good job in the early goings of making his involvement seem purely out of friendship with Superman and feelings for Wonder Woman.
The real problem is finding big names to play these roles without them seeming ridiculous.
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12-02-2008 @ 2:24PM
Clark Parker said...
Also, it opens to door for a fairly dramatic character arc involving Batman, who, altthough he was the first, is quickly becoming obsolete due to these Super-powered heroes coming into play.
That sounds like exactly the kind of brooding challenge Nolan's Batman would be perfect material for... He doesn't HAVE to keep of with the Flash, just make it a point that he can't and finish it off with proof that his spirit, his intelligence and determination are what make him invaluable. Not his powers, or lack thereof.... Is that not what all Batman purists say about him? That he is better then the Supers BECAUSE he doesn't have their power? I've been hearing that from Superman haters for years... Surely they can tap into some of that potential for the film.
12-02-2008 @ 2:32PM
roshow said...
First of all, I'd do a 5 person line up. That's a managable number, assuming a normal feature length and not an LOTR epic saga. It allowsenough breathing room to showcase each character and not overbloat the story (is overbloat even a word?).
My lineup would be the Big Three -- Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman to the uninitiated -- plus Flash and Aquaman. Yes, on the outset it seems ludicrous to go with Aquaman over Green Lantern but hear me out. But GL is way too much of a powerhouse and in a line up with Superman and Wonder Woman that would be overkill. The story would have to be way too far fetched to present any sort of challenge to a lineup that includes the three of them. At least for an origin. Flash and Aquaman's specialized powers allow for plenty of superheroics but balance the team better. Storywise you can Flash cover the ground, Aquaman cover the sea, Batman as intelligence, Wonder Woman as tacticle and Superman as the leader and powerhouse.
That's my JLA movie.
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12-02-2008 @ 2:41PM
Bryan said...
Start off a movie with Batman trying to fight off some specific 'real world' type baddy, and having major issues. All of a sudden, this bolt of blue or green comes out of the sky and takes out whoever he's fighting. This gets Batman's attention, and he hunts down either Superman or Green Lantern, who are already aware of other super powered characters, and the story goes from there. We essentially join the Justice League already in progress from the Batman world...
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12-02-2008 @ 2:50PM
MDR said...
I think that part of the problem is that the JL members are just way to powerful to make a believable story set in the Nolan universe. How do you make them more accessable? I would like to see a setup similar to the X-Men movie, where the characters are already established, and the viewer is introduced to them by way of a new member. Origin stories can be left to spin-off movies and flashbacks. I still think a great way to introduce the JL would be through a Death of Superman movie, which would have the JL dealing with a major defeat and its aftermath.
Another option would be to move the JL to another time period. Make a movie based on Justice League: The New Frontier. With the Watchmen movie coming out next year, it colud capitalize on the retro-superhero setting.
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12-02-2008 @ 4:54PM
scotty said...
If Batman has to be in it, then make Batman older -- middle-aged. Make it where he is the mentor to the rest of the League, most of who are younger. He's the one without super powers, but the young'uns he shows the ropes to rely too much on their super powers.
By making Batman older, the Justice League movie won't tread on the continuity of the Bat-Nolan movies. So we fans get to enjoy both versions of Batman: young and older.
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12-02-2008 @ 5:19PM
Kurt said...
I gotta agree with the Rappe on this. I don't think the Nolan Batman is in any way reconcilable with the rest of the JL or the broader DC-verse in general.
And I think the biggest part of the problem is that the DC comic world is very cartoon-y. The characters tend to be more shallow--Batman being an exception (and even then, he didn't start out being very complex or conflicted). The Marvel characters tend to be more innately flawed and, as such, more cinematic. Whereas DC heroes... I mean Superman is an all-powerful Boy Scout for Christ's sake.
Here's my take, give it a few years for the Nolan dust to settle and then put out an animated feature. Not even CGI, I think the stylized 2-D animation of the cartoon series could be adapted to the big screen fairly elegantly if done by the right director. Get a good story, keep it kid friendly, and it will do wonders.
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12-02-2008 @ 8:15PM
Dan said...
I'm not sure how to work it in with Nolan and JLA...lotta good ideas floating around and I especially think that introducing Superman AFTER Batman's existence and citing Batman as sort of a jumpstart could work really well, especially if Batman is older-which I think would be best suited to the story.
Personally, I think if Batman goes older, I like Kevin Smith's suggestion, the perfect guy for the role would be Michael Keaton. He was easily the second best Batman behind Bale, he's old enough to play the role, and its not messing with audiences TOO much, since he already played Batman.
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12-03-2008 @ 12:14AM
Rusty said...
Seems the fate of JLA is still in Miller's hands.
http://www.darkhorizons.com/news08/081202n.php
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12-03-2008 @ 5:55AM
Solomon Grundy said...
I think a Justice society film would be awesome actually, no need for the big three, great characters, and some good fun.
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12-03-2008 @ 6:06PM
Mike J said...
Unlike Marvel, DC has no creative control over its characters. The movie rights belong to Time Warner, DC has control over the rest. Also, Unless Superman does a Cameo at the end of the credits to Batman 7 (Nolan Batman3), or Wonder Woman films a scene in one of the DC Universe's cities it wont happen. DC has the same problem as Marvel how do you put super characters in a real world. Iron man doesnt really fit in the Avengers, and Batman wont really fit into JLA.
Superman and Wonder Woman would have to be done in a very restrained way to look real but keep the character
Hyper Realistic.
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12-04-2008 @ 12:53PM
V said...
I have an idea for a JLA movie/DC movie continuity. Here is the rough synopsis below.
First, WB should be able to make solo movies with each hero being the saviour of Earth in his/her own alternate universe first. These alternate universes run parallely to each other with some having alien presence in them, some having fantastical/magical creatures and some(or one in particular) being mundane and real. And they'd not be aware of each other's parallel existence(of course!). That would still be
"in continuation" with BB and TDK without interfering with the basic principle of Nolan-verse as well as setup all of the DC heroes. And then when the time arrives for the ensemble movie, the plot could be that something causes a rift in the collective universe causing all of these alternate-Earths to instantly and suddenly crash and blend into each other, forcing the heroes to meet and confront each other
in order to form a superteam out of helplessness against the
unbelievable height of hysteria and series of endless crises facing them when alien villains(Superman, GL, Martian Manhunter universe) meet mythological baddies(WW universe) and gangster goonies and costumed crazies(the gritty Nolan-verse). Think about this for a second. The cinematography would be unimaginably breath-taking with
all the different atmospheric feels of the individual solo movies
colliding into each other. Who wouldn't want to watch a gigantic GL alien-being inexplicably appear flat in the middle of the realistically dark and brooding Gotham City, instantly killing, terrorizing and horribly confusing thousands of the citizens ala the squid in Watchmen. How about Ares the God of War and a bunch of scary-looking gorillas invading and wreaking havoc on a pristine Metropolis? I know I'd pay to watch Cillian Murphy's Scarecrow march with his henchmen to Themyscira and try out a fear serum he made especially for women on the unsuspecting Amazons to see if they can
withstand his twisted psychological games. There is a great, varied, epic story in there as well.
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