Joss Whedon Explains Why DC Comics Movies Won't Work
Filed under: Warner Brothers, Fandom, Comic/Superhero/Geek
For legions of Joss Whedon fans, one of his most lovable qualities is his outspoken nature. Sometimes it gets him into a little trouble, but hey, its all in good fun right? Well, DC Comics might not see it that way now that Whedon has thrown in his two cents about why DC hasn't had the same success as Marvel when it comes to bringing comic books to the multiplex. Elisabeth brought us the bad news back in January, that WB had put their DC properties on hold for the foreseeable future (with maybe the exception of a certain caped crusader), but, there are still a few DC properties that have survived. With Jonah Hex and the Green Lantern at the top of the list.So what makes some superheroes successful at the box-office while others are destined to languish in development? According to Whedon it all comes down to humanity -- and what else would you expect from one the biggest touchy-feely comic book geeks around. Whedon says, "DC's characters, like Wonder Woman and Superman and Green Lantern, were all very much removed from humanity. Batman was the only character they had who was so rooted in pain, that had that same gift that the Marvel characters had, which was that gift of humanity that we can relate to." Even though Whedon is an expert when it comes to comics, I'm not sure if he has me convinced. The genius of a character like Superman is exploring the feelings of isolation and the price that is paid when you become someones protector and savior -- and if you need a great example of how to bring somebody like Superman into the real world, check out Tom DeHaven's It's Superman!
After the jump, Whedon gives the lowdown on Wonder Woman...
To be fair, Whedon probably knows better than anyone how difficult it is to adapt the DC universe into a feature, as he has the dubious distinction of being the person who got the closest to bringing Wonder Woman to life. But it was not to be, and with his usual candor, Whedon told The Telegraph, "I have no idea the status of the movie and, honestly, I never did. I was told they were very anxious to make it. I wrote a script. I rewrote the story. And by the time I'd written the second script, they asked me...not to" Unfortunately it looks like Whedon has yet another bad experience with executives when "They didn't tell me to leave, but they showed me the door and how pretty it was. Would I like to touch the knob and maybe make it swing? I was dealing with them through [producer] Joel Silver who couldn't tell me what they wanted or anything else. I was completely in the dark. So I didn't know what it was that I wasn't giving them. I've moved on."
So now I'm going to leave it to the experts out there; Is Whedon right? Can DC heroes make the same connection to audiences that Marvel has enjoyed lately, or, do you detect the subtle flavor of sour grapes from the writer-director?
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
2-25-2009 @ 3:25PM
mezzanine said...
I guess I agree, despite being more on DC's side than Marvel's.
DC should focus on Vertigo movies.
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2-25-2009 @ 3:31PM
Jay Seaver said...
If I remember correctly, Whedon's Wonder Woman script was the sort of thing that would have had the fans up in arms if anybody else were writing it ("we're changing the costume... making her younger... I had to create a new villain because none of the ones in the book are any good..."). I suspect some of this may be sour grapes as much as his own frustrations with the project.
I think the headline here's a little misleading; he's not saying these characters "can't work", just that it's harder. You've got to look a little closer to find (and maybe extrapolate) the proper hook; it doesn't come out and announce itself like it does with Stan Lee's creations.
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2-25-2009 @ 3:45PM
ML said...
Actually, I think he has a point. It is much more challenging to wrest drama from someone who is conceptually perfect and godlike (and pretty much invulnerable) such as Superman or Green Lantern.
I can see potential for drama in Superman that's been hinted at but not explored, but I don't think it would be appreciated (because it would involve re-envisioning and some "deconstruction"). It would probably be better (or more safely) done with original characters.
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2-25-2009 @ 4:11PM
Kevin S. said...
Actually, the problem hasn't lain with the characters so much as with the treatment of them. The Christopher Reeve Superman was a solid adaptation, but the recent movie was poorly written with little character development and some serious miscasting.
Green Lantern is merely human with the same failings as any human, but he has a great toy to play with.
As for the Vertigo movies which have been done, the scripts and casting have been brutal - Constantine, Swamp Thing?
And to be honest, I didn't hear a single thing from Whedon that sounded like he was doing a commendable job on Wonder Woman. I like a lot of what Whedon has done, but the man really needs to get over himself.
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2-25-2009 @ 4:49PM
Matthew Mac said...
Well, that's why I've always been more into Marvel than DC, so I guess he has a point. I always felt most of DC's characters were too powerful for their own good. That's not to say they can't make a good movie, but I can see the challenge (and the answer is not to make them all have illegitimate babies).
By the way, this is purely a perspective thing from someone who isn't into DC, so please don't come after me telling me how I'm wrong. =)
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2-25-2009 @ 5:08PM
craig said...
Superman Returns almost worked. It wasn't a bad movie because of Superman.It was the script that killed it.
The same reasons people like the comics can be done in a movie, especially with todays effects.
Not all of DC's characters can work, but I think they can make better movies than Ghost Rider and Spiderman 3.
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2-25-2009 @ 5:40PM
Rob Walley said...
Whedon is great, but there have been some great DC movies in the past and Marvel is on a serious roll right now. Not all Marvel movies of late have been great, but they keep spitting them out so fast that there is the perception that they have the market sewn up. I for one would love to have seen his Wonder Woman. WB understandably wants to keep tight control over it's properties and keep them all in-house after the Watchmen debacle. I think there are great possibilities for movies based on the DC Universe and I expect that we will start to see them in the next few years. Meanwhile, Marvel will keep turning them out, seeing what sticks!
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3-20-2009 @ 6:07PM
Doua Yang said...
I agree. Not all Marvel movies are that great. I personally liked all the Spider Man Moives. The 3rd wasn't all that, but I am just a fan of Spider Man. The latest Punisher movie sucked. Not real enough. Anyways, It is harder to produce a DC movie (besides "The Dark Knight" himself) because the main heroes and heroines were created during the time when being a Iconic symbol was alright and cool. Time has changed, and none of these characters were ever revamped. There's Superman, Bat Man (of course), Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, The Flash, Aqua Man. Look, Green Lantern and The Flash may workout fine, but Aqua Man and Wonder Woman? Aqua Man: wow, i guess we're going to have to film everything under the sea. Wonder Woman: She's Hot, but a woman who doesn't know anything about the outside world, Never seen a real man before, and all she knows is nothing but combat.
Yeah, when you review some of these characters, it doesn't look movie worthy.
2-25-2009 @ 6:17PM
Pat said...
Hm, I'm still giving Dollhouse a chance, but based on the first 1.5 episodes, I'm going to say that maybe Joss Whedon doesn't have any room to talk about characters that are impossible to relate to . . . The big flaw of Dollhouse is that Echo IS nobody, so the center of the show is, uh, empty. The last half of the second episode really intrigued, me though. But I digress.
Whedon's wrong. Marvel hasn't had what he's talking about since the 60s; since then, it's been mostly gimmicks to make their books seem "edgy." (except, you know, when he writes the books and reminds me of how much I love Kitty Pryde and what a lovable dick Cyclops is) DC's where it's at.
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2-25-2009 @ 7:04PM
Batzarro said...
Now, now, MR Whedon. You can humanize a valley girl, and you think humanizing a Superhero is dificult? Come on! And it's not always "humanization" what the audience craves. If you can't make it humanized, just make it action-comedy-ish. That's it.
Now, If you tell me it can't happen because WB, that I would believe.
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2-26-2009 @ 2:23AM
JackGonzo said...
He has very valid points.
1. Wonder Woman is basically a demi-god with no major weaknesses...bout the only thing you can make her human is her difficulty adjusting to the modern world.
2. Wonder Woman has no good villains, he's right about that. Whose gonna be the major villain, Cheetah? Batman has Joker, Superman has Luthor and Lantern has Sinestro...Wonder Woman has...Ares? Giganta? Other heros have name power, her's don't.
3. We all know though that the WB doesn't "get it" about the comic book movies. They turned the original Batman franchise into a neon playhouse to sell toys. They wanted Superman not to fly and to fight a big mechanical spider. They cast Keanu Reeves as Constantine. Other then giving Christopher Nolan the reigns to Batman they haven't made a good movie decision in over a decade.
Marvel takes itself and their movies seriously, the people in charge GET comic books. The people in charge of the WB don't, they still don't get it. Even with the success of the more gritty and real Batman I don't know if they get it.
I mean their idea for a Green Arrow movie is to put him in a super prison with a bunch of villains. I think I read that in Watchmen...
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2-26-2009 @ 1:54PM
Kevin S. said...
Gotta say, I don't get your issue with what Nolan has been doing with Batman and really Marvel hasn't had a single dog recently? The Punisher? Ghostrider? Punisher War Zone? Either of the Hulk films? The third X-Men and Blade films? The Fantastic Four Films?
They were all bad films.
Were it not for Iron Man last year, roughly the last ten films put out based on Marvel properties would have been inferior to what I thought was a pretty weak Superman Returns film.
Like Mike noted, Marvel spent a big chunk of time making straight to video films that were brutally bad and starred people like David Hasselhoff as Nick Fury.
Yes, Constantine was a complete waste of film, not because of the property, but because of a bad script based on Garth Ennis' "Rake at the Gates of Hell" story arc and idiotic casting. It was like Hollywood didn't know if it was trying to make a horror or an action film.
They would have been better off with a treatment that kept the movie more faithful to the source material - maybe casting the likes of Chris Eccleston, Daniel Craig, or even David Tennant in the role of Constantine.
The issue is less the property than how it's being treated in the adaptation - it's the same issue that anything faces in adaptation. A lot of Tolkien fans, upon hearing that Tom Bombadil were being cut from the film, were upset about it. Overall, keeping it would probably have killed the pacing of the film.
2-26-2009 @ 2:38PM
JackGonzo said...
See I really enjoyed Punisher War Zone, I thought it was well done for a Punisher movie. Was Jigsaw off, sure, but Punisher himself was dead on. Same goes for the Incredible Hulk, a great starting point for that character. Now things like Fantastic Four and X-Men 3 are not controlled by Marvel. They sold so many properties in the 90s to make money they don't nearly have the influence over how it is done, but everryone seems to enjoy the first X-Men films so the problem lies in the new director.
Now I enjoyed Superman Returns, I like what Bryan Singer was trying to do with continue on with the good Superman films and forget the travesties of 3 and 4.
Ghost Rider was hurt by "its biggest fan" getting control of the character and for some reason changing things about it. I mean, really, jelly beans? The Blade films were all kick ass and took a very minor character and more or less started the wave of good comic book films. But like I said, certain Marvel films were hurt because they were sold off to studios who don't get it.
The bottom line is you have two good DC movies in the last ten years (both Batman) against Spidey 1 & 2, Iron Man, X-Men 1 & 2. If you want to go with your argument of the last ten Marvel films...Iron Man alone blows your argument out of the water as that easily can compete with Spiderman 2 and Dark Knight as the best comic book movies to date.
2-26-2009 @ 2:40AM
Mike said...
That sounds like sour grapes from Joss. Comic based movies succeed or fail on script and direction just like any other movie. The fact that Hollywood is struggling to come up with original stories has more to do with how well of movie does than the characters involved.
Let's remember when the DC movies were doing fairly well in the 70's and 80's a lot of Marvel films made during that time were going direct to video when that was a very bad thing. Now that Marvel is having a good run it not because they got new characters they didn't have when the first batch of movies were made. They were just bad movies.
Many many people go to the movies to escape reality not relate to it. People love to overthink if or how people can relate to fictional characters. Chances are if you are not a fan of a character you'll find it harder a to understand how or why others would be interested in the character. Even those who do relate to the character may do so in different ways. Having super-powers doesn't make these characters 'perfect' they still have their own personalities, which people can relate to.
Some characters work better on bigger stages than others. You can't use the same formula for all characters. Superman and GL would work better in a more Cosmic-Fantastic-action movie as opposed to a more Local-Dramatic-action movie that works better for Batman or Spider-man. Batman or Spider-man in outer space, which both have done in the comics, might not play well as a movie plot.
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2-26-2009 @ 11:36AM
geoffyd said...
Woo Jessica way to defend Superman! Im glad to hear someone who appreciates the DC line of characters especially the original superhero. It seems to me that Joss Whedon might have some bitterness about the DC adaptaion process and its bringing his inner fanboy down.
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3-02-2009 @ 12:32PM
Hughman Bein said...
I love Joss. The man has effected my life with his storytelling and he's smart. Some people on here love DC so much they'd sell their kid to see the next movie. I agree it comes down to how the property gets done. I think after Watchmen you will see more of a relatability to the comic book genre than you have seen in either comics house attempts to reach the audience. I am hoping that this will open the door to more faithful adaptions of the source material which is what makes the movies good in the first place. Make the films the fans have been waiting to see-- it's that simple.
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2-27-2009 @ 7:35AM
xvenex said...
I've been hearing that sentence that marvel's more close to reality than DC for so long. I admit it, it's true, and for that reason, is must be more dificult to bring a DC movie to the big screen than a Marvel movie. But what about fans that are more linked to that side of reality? That enjoy things that you don't see in reality or that are impossible to exist.
That side is more attached to DC, and that side is expecting for so long movies like The Flash or Green Lantern that finally it's for real.
I give a damn about the competition between those to companies, I only want to see my favorites characters, as a DC fan, as many other fans want to. And I hope that they find a way to make easier this adaptations and deliever us many movies enough to make a Justice League movie so epic that we fans would never forget about it.
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