Girls on Film: Domestic Violence and Media

JESUS KNOWS IT'S WRONG ALSO..NEVER LIKED THIS GUY-MANSON- OR HIS MUSIC..J.

you people need to wake up it send a message if you listen .but you have your head up your ass .the film was great dont you know he re did the president shooting he is just manson being manson

eh.....It's "healthier" in the same sense it's always healthier to JUST fantasize about killing someone and not actually do it.

But to call it out-and-out healthy? Not so much.

And your problem with her "singling out" Manson is undermined by, err, reality.

"And the fact of the matter is -- this skewed idea of what is okay isn't just living in some small slice of the rock world. It's a sentiment that doesn't just live with some random music fans who think this is okay. "

And so on, and so on, as the rest of the post continues to develop and explore a legitimate topic worthy of discussion...

Yeah, this isn't just Manson's "Cry Me A River", and Monika's use of the music video is clearly as the most-recent example of an overall societal problem, followed up by other recent examples, intelligently discussed in a thoughtful manner.

You should probably hold the folks you admire to a slightly higher standard. Commending folks for not committing violent crimes is a little silly. Not quite worthy of a gold star in my book...

....especially when the song blows.

Saying Manson is some sort of champion for women's rights because he used to be married to Dita Von Teese doesn't add up. (And yes, I am a fan of both Von Teese and some of Manson's work.) If you read "The Long Hard Road Out of Hell," he definitely comes off as not only someone who disrespects women sexually and physically, but *everyone*, including himself. Sure, maybe that deaf groupie really wanted raw meat thrown at her, but...

As someone who regularly plays violent video games, watches horror movies, etc, I found this video quite upsetting, even moreso than videos like Prodigy's "Smack My Bitch Up," and not just because in the end of the video, it was a woman's POV, but because of the connection to Evan Rachel Wood. If I were Evan Rachel Wood, I would be extremely disturbed by this video and the things he's said to the press about her.

I agree with Dan L -- should we congratulate him for just making a music video about beating her and killing her instead of, you know, actually doing it?

In response to Dan L, I do not consider myself a "random music fan who thinks this is okay." Besides, your criticism of my commen seems very jaded of bias and I'm not quite sure that you understand where I'm coming from. I never tried to deny that there is in fact a societal problem with violence directed toward women in our culture - if that is in fact the problem to which you are referring - I just don't see how this video correlates to that problem. That's like saying that any biopic portraying Hitler supports fascism and the Nazis. This video shows Marilyn Manson venting his rage on ONE very specific girl, which represents, to me, something personal and not to be interpreted on an overall scale, such as saying "oh, well he disrespects WOMEN."


In response to Jenni, I have read Long Hard Road Out of Hell - naturally - it's one of my favorites. I don't think it's fair to conclude that Marilyn Manson disrespects women at all - first of all, he's never said that. He's done things that he has admitted he's not proud of, but a lot of people have done a lot of things, especially in the rock star world, and they wouldn't admit them in the first place. He never said that he condones violence, and he has in fact spoken out against violence - and specifically violence directed towards women, in his interviews.

In the very specific incidents to which you refer where what some may call "distasteful" acts have taken place, you would do well to remember that they were CONSENSUAL and that he was admittedly under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

Moving on to something that you said that I believe is of more merit here, Marilyn Manson has absolutely said a few negative things about Evan Rachel Wood in the press. She has said her share of negative things as well, in case you did not know. From my understanding of their relationship (which, of course, I am no insider - I was not there) she was not a very nice person at all to him, and it is only natural for there to be anger and resentment - especially given the extent to which he loved her.

Finally, I'm not congratulating Marilyn Manson for not killing her, I'm simply saying that it's better to expres yourself through art rather than to vent your anger in real life, whether it be violent behavior directed towards someone or anything else. What I will congratulate him for is what I think is a beautiful song and a beautiful music video...

The video has everything to do with sexual and violent gratification. The song itself was good. But the end of the video was not necessary. Why should kids see that? Wasn't "Beautiful People" enough!? Now that those teenage kids are older, M.M. is focusing on the next bunch of 13 - 17 yr. old kids from bad homes. Musical genius? Perhaps. Business genius? Yes.
Marilyn Manson and his music catapulted the whole Goth/vampire genre, as in all those freaks came out of the wood work and it all became mainstream... don't tell me he has no influence!

You get a F on your thesis, if you ever amount to anything it will have to be from gaining maturity and wisdom but at this time you are inept.

I disagree. I must say I know little except the negative media about Marilyn Manson. I started to read some kind of autobiography he wrote many years ago, and it was dark and Satanic in my opinion.

Perhaps he's not a violent person. Say he's just "expressing his feelings". HOWEVER, we are living in a society of followers. Human beings are copiers and followers. (Look at all the injuries and accidents that followers of the TV show "Jackass" caused) Not only are we followers, but everything we listen to, watch, experience has an effect on our personalities and our subsequent actions. Different people process it differently, but that is true. No, not every person who watches that video is going to go beat up their girlfriend, but there are plenty of consciousless people out there who are ignorant and stupid, and who will take that video the wrong way and say, "Hey, Marilyn Manson did it.", even if in a subconscious manner. Even if it doesn't go that far for anyone, it's just one more video from from an icon that is desensitizing us with violent imagery. You think everyone is understanding and intelligent enough to think, "Oh, he wouldn't do that, he's just expressing himself at an emotional level. He's sensitive." You're wrong. A lot of the public is NOT going to understand that. Just the idea that someone MIGHT be led to or justify violent actions by watching the video should've stopped Marilyn from making it. I don't think he really cares. I don't think he cares what negative damage his video could have. Although frankly, I think part of the reason he did it is because he enjoys upsetting people.

If Marilyn Manson has even a subconscious desire to violently beat Even Rachel Wood, he needs to see a therapist, not to mention he needs God and Spirituality. He's advertising to everyone that he is an emotionally unhealthy individual. Not to mention the fact that he is desensitized. My brother's wife cheated on him and left him, and he would NEVER (if he was in the music industry) make a video like this. Yes it was a really hard experience for him, and he exerienced anger, but he is grounded. He knows God and he has respect for women and for himself. And no he's not a loser. He's an attractive, talented, masculine man.

I'm sure your thesis is interesting, but you are wrong. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just letting you know. After writing this, I found an interesting article that backs me up. Please see the URL below. (It contains a lot of research)

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=c751535cedb1c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

When you are an artist whose material is absorbed by so many people, you have to think about the choices you make with your art. I understand that to a degree it is absolutely normal to fantasize about revenge on someone who has hurt you. It's a healthy way to vent your anger. However, you need to have the wherewithal to realize there are some things that are private and should be kept that way. Do you see the average healthy person going around telling everyone how they fantasize about beating the living hell out of their ex? Do you think that might influence some young child who looked up to that person and didn't realize that they wouldn't necessarily really do that? Well if you don't think that might happen, then you aren't really thinking very hard. Manson acted irresponsibly by sharing this with the world. He is being selfish with his desire to vent his angst at the risk of those people who might, and will, be influenced by him. While I can also see the possibility that he maybe wanted to horrify people into wanting to help domestic violence victims and being more aware, there are ways to do that without the possibility to influence just what you were trying to eliminate. While I won't pass judgment on Manson as a person, I will pass judgment on this horrible decision he made.

You sound like someone who took a psychology class or two. Did you ever encounter the term desensitization? That is what the visual media does. Violence even in effigy or "artistically" is still violence. It provokes feelings of fear in the target and if the video was a comment on his relationship with Ms Wood, then she may indeed be alarmed. The author was simply using the video as an illustration of a greater problem. She was drawing a line. Where do you draw the line? When it comes from an artist you don't like? When a threat is made by someone who isn't famous? Or when it threatens or offends you? How would you feel if Ms Wood was your sister?

you're sick

you are so right...i love the points that you made!! it amazes me how rap artists can have whatever they want in there videos...but as soon as manson puts feelings into his video its the end of the world....thank you for writing this

Amen!

I absolutely love your take on this article. We need more intelligent beings like you in the world. Let's blame Marilyn Manson for our problems, but when Chris Brown almost kills a girl, we let him off real quick. Let's weigh out the facts, Brown phyically abused someone, and Manson expressed something in a video. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize that.

In response to the last three users (if it's me you're agreeing with) thank you.

In response to Lisa Parker in particular, and to everyone else as well, let me just say one thing to begin with. This discussion is NOT about religion. I am only talking about a music video and how it does or does not correlate to real world violence or animosity towards women - so please try to keep your personal feelings about God or Satan silent in order to increase your accessibility. There is a time and place for religious discussion. Since morals and ethics are being questioned here though, I think it's fair for me to admit that I am an atheist - I have been for years - and in case anyone was unaware, Marilyn Manson is too. He does not believe in or worship the devil. Just to clarify.

Okay. Now in response to De: where do I draw the line, so to speak? Artistically, I don't. There are a lot of movies and bands and music videos and television shows that I don't like, but I don't go around protesting their content, because no one is forcing me to watch/listen to/read them. And I don't think there should be any artistic lines. Whether or not you agree with an artist, it is HIS/HER opinions expressed in a creative way, and those opinions don't deserve to be censored. That's the way that big freedom-of-speech wars or unfair, biased, bigoted hate groups get started. People today still get together to burn books or records they don't like; isn't that a little barbaric? I mean aren't we past all that? I draw the line when people get killed or attacked or otherwise hurt in real life. That is the only place where I start drawing lines. The beauty of art is that it is harmless.

Or at least it should be harmless. Yes, I do live in the real world...I know that art is not always harmless...but when art becomes dangerous it is out of the artist's hands and the responsibility is our own.

To Lisa Parker again: I agree, obviously there are a lot of idiots among us, and some of them (probably less than 1% of the population, but a substantial number nonetheless) are pathologically dangerous. But it isn't Marilyn Manson's job to sit down and think of every single possible reaction to every single thing he does and say to himself, "Okay, who am I going to offend today?" Besides, I think you're giving Marilyn Manson WAY too much credit.

If someone is actually fucked up enough to go and commit murder, it is not going to be a direct result of a MUSIC VIDEO. Do you realize how ridiculous that is?? Think about it. A number of factors are going to contribute to it; not the least of which being the parents (or family/friends), the economic status, the place where he/she's living. You can't pinpoint one video or singer for that matter and say that he's the cause of violence or mayhem, or else every idiot who turns on the NEWS is going to put us all in jeapordy by what he/she's exposed to on a nightly basis.

Plus, our government is at war! In the Bible (and again, I reiterate, this is NOT a criticism of religion!!) there is endless descriptions of violence and gore and truly evil behavior. Anyone exposed to current events or religious scripture who is desposed to kill will probably find most of these factors a lot more compelling than a singer with 30 seconds of violence in a music video.

I'm just trying to get you all to think about what you're saying. I'm not out to piss anybody off. I'm only expressing my opinion, just like Marilyn Manson, and just like the author of the blog, and it's my right to speak just as much as it is yours. And with all due respect to everyone I'm fighting with, I'm not the one saying, "I'm right and you're wrong."

Just the fact that he calls himself Manson is all I need to know about this sick person.